Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas II

Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas II

The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala

Chapter 9
The Solving of Dilemmas (II)
11. The Minor and Lesser Precepts
“It has been said by the Blessed One, ‘It is
from higher knowledge, O monks, that I
teach Dhamma.’
90 Yet he also said, ‘When I
am gone, ânanda, let the Order, if it should
so wish, abolish the minor and lesser precepts.’
91
Were then
those precepts laid down in error and without due cause?”
“When the Blessed One, O king, said, ‘Let the Order
abolish the lesser and minor precepts’, it was said in order
to test the monks. As a king on his death bed would test his
sons saying, ‘The outer regions of my kingdom will be in
danger of falling after my death.’ Then, would his sons on
the death of their father give up those outlying districts?”
“No indeed, venerable sir. Kings are grasping. The
princes might, in their lust for power, subjugate an area
twice what they already had but they would never willing-
ly give up what they possessed.”
“Just so, O king, the sons of the Buddha, in their
enthusiasm for the Dhamma might keep even more than
one hundred and fifty92
regulations but they would never
give up any that had been laid down.”
90.A. i. 276 cf. M. ii. 9.
91.D. ii. 154; Vin. ii. 287.
92.Excluding the 75 minor training rules there are 152 precepts.

“Venerable Nàgasena, when the Blessed One referred
to the ‘Minor and Lesser Precepts’ people might be in doubt
as to which these were.”
“Those acts of wrong-doing93 are the lesser precepts,
and wrong speech94 refers to the minor precepts. The elders
who convened the First Buddhist Council were also not
unanimous about this matter.”
12. The Esoteric Teaching
“The Blessed One said to ânanda, ‘In respect of the
Dhamma the Tathàgata does not have the closed fist of a
teacher who holds something back.’
95
Yet when he was
questioned by Màlurikyàputta he made no answer.
96 Was
it because of ignorance that he did not reply or did he wish
to conceal something?”
“O king, it was not because of ignorance, nor for the
sake of concealing anything that he did not answer. A ques-
tion may be answered in one of four ways: directly, with an
analysis, with a counter-question or by setting it aside.
“And what sort of question should be answered
directly?
‘Is matter impermanent? Is feeling impermanent? Is per-
ception impermanent?’ These should be answered directly.
“And what should be answered with an analysis?
‘Is what is impermanent, matter?’
93. Dukkaña: Transgressions against the 75 training rules and other minor regulations.
94. Dubbhàsita: Frivolous or sarcastic speech that does not amount to lying or abuse of a
monk.
95.D. ii. 100; S. v. 153.
96.M. ii. Sta. 63.

“And what should be answered with a counter-
question?
‘Can the eye perceive all things?’
“And which should be set aside?
‘Is the world eternal? Is the world not eternal? Does
the Tathàgata exist after death? Does he not exist after
death? Is the soul the same as the body? Is the body one
thing and the soul another?’ It was to this sort of question
that the Blessed One gave no reply to Màlurikyàputta.
There was no reason to answer it. The Buddhas do not
speak without reason.”
13. The Fear of Death
“The Blessed One said, ‘All tremble at punishment, all are
afraid of death.’
97 Yet he also said, ‘The arahant has passed
beyond all fear.’
98 How is it then? Do the arahants tremble
at the fear of death? Or are the beings in hell afraid of death
by which they may gain release from torment?”
“O king, it was not with regard to arahants that the
Blessed One said, ‘All tremble at punishment, all are afraid
of death.’ An arahant is an exception to that statement for all
cause of fear has been removed by him. Suppose, O king, a
king had four chief ministers who were faithful and trust-
worthy; would they be afraid if the king were to issue an
order saying, ‘All the people in my realm must pay a tax’?”
“No, Nàgasena, they would not be afraid because the
tax does not apply to them, they are beyond taxation.”
97.Dhp. v 129.
98. cf. A. ii. 172

“Just so, O king, the statement, ‘All tremble at punish-
ment, all fear death’, does not apply to arahants because
they are beyond the fear of death. There are these five ways,
O king, in which the meaning of a statement should be
established: by comparison with the text quoted; by ‘taste’
i.e. is it in accordance with other texts?; is it in accordance
with the word of the teachers?; having considered his own
opinion, i.e. is it in accordance with my own experience?;
and, fifthly, by a combination of all these methods.”
“Very well, Nàgasena, I accept that arahants are an
exception to that statement, but surely those beings in hell
cannot be afraid of the death by means of which they will
gain release from that torment?”
“Those in hell are afraid of death, O king, for death is
a condition that all those who have not seen the Dhamma
are afraid of. Suppose, O king, a man kept prisoner in a dun-
geon were to be sent for by the king who wished to set him
free. Wouldn’t that prisoner be afraid of meeting the king?”
“Yes he would.”
“Just so, O king, those beings in hell are afraid of death
even though they will attain release from their torment.”
14. Protection from Death
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘Not in the sky, not in the
ocean’s midst, not in the most secluded mountain cleft, not
in the whole wide world is found the spot where
remaining one could escape the snare of death.’
99 Yet, on
99.Dhp. v 128.

the other hand, the protection verses (paritta) were
prescribed by the Buddha for the protection of those in
danger. If there is no escape from death then the Paritta
ceremony is useless.”
“Paritta verses, O king, are meant for those who have
some portion of their life remaining. There is no ceremony
or artificial means for prolonging the life of one whose life-
span has come to an end.”
“But, Nàgasena, if he who has a term of life yet to run
will live, and he who has none will die, then medicine and
Paritta are alike useless.”
“Have you ever seen or heard of a case of a disease
being cured by medicine?”
“Yes, hundreds of times.”
“Then your statement as to the ineffectiveness of
Paritta and medicine must be wrong.”
“Venerable Nàgasena, is Paritta a protection to every-
body?”
“Only to some, not to all. There are three reasons for
the failure of Paritta: the obstruction due to past kamma, that
caused by present defilements, and the obstruction caused
by lack of confidence. That which is a protection to beings
loses its power through their own blemishes.”
15. The Power of Màra
“Although you say that the Tathàgata was in constant
receipt of alms100 yet when he entered the Pa¤casàla
100. cf. A. ii. 87. “I, monks, enjoy a plentiful supply of alms when invited.”

village he received nothing due to the intervention of
Màra.
101 Is the power of Màra greater than the power of the
Buddha or the power of demerit greater than the power of
merit?”
“Great king, although what you said is true it is not
enough reason to prove your assertion. Consider a gate-
keeper at a royal palace. He might prevent someone from
bringing a present for the king out of jealousy yet the king
would not thereby be less powerful than the gatekeeper.
There are four modes of obstructing a gift: to a gift not in-
tended for any particular person, to one set aside for some-
one, to one being prepared for someone and to the enjoy-
ment of a gift given to someone. In the case you mentioned
the gift was not intended specifically for the Blessed One: if
it had been no one could have obstructed it.
“There are four things, O king, connected with the
Tathàgatas, to which no one can do any harm: the alms
intended for him, the halo that surrounds him for one
fathom, his omniscience and his life. These things are free
from defect and unassailable by other beings and cannot be
harmed. When Màra possessed the householders of Pa¤ca-
sàla village it was as when robbers, by hiding in inaccess-
ible places, beset the highways. However, if the king caught
sight of them do you think they would be safe?”
“No, sir, he might have them cut to pieces.”
“Just so, O king, if Màra had raised any obstruction to
alms intended for the Blessed One his head would have
split into a thousand pieces.”
101.S. i. 113 f; DhA. iii. 257. Màra, as well as being the personification of evil, is a being who
was an antagonist of the Buddha and appeared several times during his life to taunt him.

16. Knowledge of Wrong Doing
“This was said by the Blessed One, ‘Whoever ignorantly
deprives a living being of life accumulates great demerit.’
102
Yet in the training rule for monks concerning killing living
beings he says, ‘There is no offence if he does not know.’
103
How can both of these statements be true?”
“There are offences where there is no escape for one
who does not know and there are offences where there is an
escape.
104 It was in regard to this second kind of offence that
the Blessed One said there is no offence if he does not know.”
17. The Buddha Is Not Possessive
“The Blessed One said, ‘The Tathàgata does not think that
he should lead the Order or that it is dependent upon
him.’
105 Yet regarding Metteyya Buddha he said, ‘He will
be the leader of an Order of several thousands as I am now
the leader of an Order of several hundreds’.”106
“O king, the sense in one passage is inclusive, in the
other it is not. It is not the Tathàgata who seeks after a fol-
lowing but the followers who seek after him. It is merely a
102.The quotation given is taken out of context. There is no demerit at all in killing living
beings unknowingly (as a blind man walking on ants). Hence I have said ‘ignorantly’
meaning he kills not knowing it is an unwholesome act which has evil results.
See,Question 8, Chapter Seven.
103. Vin. iii. 78; iv. 49, etc.
104.Compare, for example, Pàcittiya 51; in which taking intoxicants is an offence even if one
does not know; to Pàcittiya 62 where using water with living organisms in it is an offence
only if he knows.
105.D. ii. 100; cf. M. i. 459 (MLS. ii. 132).
106.D. iii. 76

common opinion that ‘This is mine’, it is not an ultimate
truth. Affection is a frame of mind put away by the Tathà-
gata; he has put away possessiveness, he is free from the
delusion ‘This is mine’, he lives only to help others. Just as
a mighty rain cloud, O king, pours out its rain, and gives
sustenance to grass and trees, to cattle and to men, and all
living things depend on it, but the cloud has no feelings of
longing with the idea that ‘These are mine’ — so too, the
Tathàgata instructs all beings in good qualities and main-
tains them in goodness, and all beings depend on him but
he has no concept of possession because he has abandoned
all wrong views of self.”
18. The Unity of the Order
“You say that the Order of the Tathàgata could never be
broken up.
107 Yet Devadatta was able to lead away five
hundred monks from the Blessed One”.
108
“It was due to the power of the schismatic that the
schism occurred, for even a mother can be disunited from
her son where there is one to make a rift. However, it was
said in a special sense that the Order of the Tathàgata could
not be broken up. It is an unheard of thing that his follow-
ing could be disunited by anything done or any unkind
word, wrong action, or injustice whatsoever of the Tathà-
gata himself. In that sense his following is invulnerable.”
107.D. iii. 172.
108.Vin. ii. 198