Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas VIII

Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas VIII

The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala

Chapter 15
The Solving of Dilemmas (VIII)
71. The Gift of Vessantara
“Venerable Nàgasena, do all the Bodhi-
sattas give away their wives and children,
or was it only Vessantara?”205
“All of them do.”
“But do those wives and children consent to it?”
“The wives do but the children do not due to their
tender age.”
“But was it then a meritorious deed if the children
were terrified and cried at being given away?”
“Yes it was. As a man desiring merit might take a crip-
ple wherever he wanted to go in an ox-cart and thereby the
oxen would be made to suffer; or as a king might levy a tax in
order to perform a great meritorious deed; so too, giving,
though it may cause anguish to some, is conducive to rebirth
in heaven. Is there, O king, any gift that should not be given?”
“Yes, Nàgasena, there are ten kinds of gifts that should
not be given, the giving of which leads to rebirth in states of
woe: a gift of intoxicants, of a festival, of a woman, of a
man,
206 of suggestive designs, weapons, poisons, chains or
205.Jà. No. 547 (Jà. vi. 479ff).
206. Usabha, according to the PED, is a bull which is the leader of the herd or a very strong
man. Ven. Ledi Sayàdaw (Bodhipakkhiya Dipanã p.99, Manuals of Buddhism p.200)
describes usabha as a very special bull, which can protect the whole herd and even the
village from disease. However, in the above context a gift of a man (for sex) would be
more consistent with a gift of a woman, neither of which would be meritorious.

instruments of torture, fowls and swine, or false weights
and measures.”
“I am not asking about gifts that are not approved of
in the world. I am asking if there is any gift that should not
be given when there is someone worthy of it.”
“Then, Nàgasena, there is no gift that should not be
given. When satisfaction in Dhamma has arisen, some people
give a hundred thousand, or a kingdom or even their life.”
“Then why do you criticize the gift of Vessantara so
harshly? Is it not sometimes the case that a man in debt may
sell his son or leave him as a pledge? Just so, Vessantara
gave his son as a pledge against his future attainment of
omniscience.”
“Nevertheless, why did he not give himself instead?”
“Because that was not what was asked for. To offer
something else would have been ignoble. Furthermore, O
king, Vessantara knew that the Brahmin would be unable
to keep the children as slaves for long since he was ad-
vanced in years. Anyway, he knew their grandfather
would pay a ransom for their return.”
“Skilfully, Nàgasena, has this puzzle been unrav-
elled. The net of heresy has been torn to pieces. Well has the
letter of the scriptures been maintained while you have
thus explained the spirit. This is so and I accept it as you
say.”
72. Austerities
“Do all Bodhisattas practise austerities or was it only the
Bodhisatta Gotama?”

“It was only the Bodhisatta Gotama.
207 In four
respects there are differences between Bodhisattas. As to
family (either warrior or priestly caste), length of time to
develop the perfections, life span, and height. However,
there is no difference between the Buddhas in respect of
their virtue or wisdom. It was in order to bring his know-
ledge to maturity that he had to practise the austerities.”
“Why then, Nàgasena, did he go forth while his
knowledge was still immature? Why didn’t he first mature
his knowledge and then renounce the world?”
“When the Bodhisatta, O king, saw the women of his
harem sleeping in disorder, then he became disgusted and
discontented. On perceiving that his mind was filled with
discontent, Màra said, ‘Seven days from now you will
become a Universal Monarch’. Yet, as if a red-hot iron bar
had entered his ear, the Bodhisatta was filled with alarm
and fear. Furthermore, O king, the Bodhisatta thought, ‘Let
me not incur blame among gods and men as being without
occupation or means. Let me be a man of action and con-
stant in earnestness.’ Thus did the Bodhisatta undertake
the austerities to bring his knowledge to maturity.”
“Venerable Nàgasena, when the Bodhisatta was un-
dergoing austerities it occurred to him ‘Might there not be
some other path to higher knowledge worthy of noble
men?’ Was he then confused about the correct way?”
“There are twenty-five conditions, O king, that cause
weakness of mind: wrath, enmity, contempt, arrogance,
envy, meanness, deceit, hypocrisy, obstinacy, contention,
207.M. Sta. 81, Ap. 301. As a result of abusing Buddha Kassapa in a former birth.
See Dilemma 46.

pride, conceit, vanity, heedlessness, sloth, drowsiness, lazi-
ness, evil friends, sights, sounds, odours, tastes, sensations
of touch, hunger and thirst, and discontent. It was hunger
and thirst that seized hold of his body and thus his mind
was not rightly directed to the destruction of the floods
(àsava). The Bodhisatta had sought after the perception of
the Four Noble Truths for many aeons so how could there
arise any confusion in his mind as to the way? Nevertheless,
he thought, ‘Might there not be some other way to wisdom?’
Formerly the Bodhisatta, when he was only one month old,
had attained the four absorptions while meditating under
the rose-apple tree while his father was ploughing.”208
“Very good, Nàgasena, I accept it as you say. It was
while bringing his knowledge to maturity that the Bodhi-
satta practised the austerities.”
73. The Power of Evil
“Which is more powerful, wholesomeness or unwhole-
someness?”209
“Wholesomeness is more powerful, O king.”
“That is something I cannot believe, for those who do
evil often experience the result of their deeds in this very
life when they are punished for their crimes,
210 but is there
anyone who, by offering alms to the Order or by observing
the Uposatha has received the benefit in this very life?”
208.M. i. 246, Jà. i. 57.
209. cf. Question 7 in Chapter Seven.
210.The king is jumping to conclusions to say that criminals are experiencing the results of
their evil deeds when they are punished. See Dilemma 8; “Without a Buddha’s insight
no one can ascertain the extent of the action of kamma.”

“There are, O king, six211 such cases. The slave
Puõõaka,
212 on giving a meal to Sàriputta, attained on the
same day to the dignity of a treasurer. Then there was the
mother of Gopàla, who sold her hair and therewith gave a
meal to Mahà Kaccàyana and as a result became the chief
queen of King Udena. The pious woman Suppiyà, who cut
flesh from her own thigh to provide meat for a sick monk
but on the very next day the wound healed. Mallikà, when
a slave girl, gave her own gruel to the Blessed One and
became, that very day, the chief queen of Kosala. Sumana
the florist, who presented eight bunches of jasmine to the
Blessed One, came into great prosperity and Ekasàñaka the
Brahman who gave the Blessed One his only garment and
received that day the gift of ‘All the Eights’.”213
“So then, Nàgasena, for all your searching have you
found only six cases?”
“That is so, O king.”
“Then it is unwholesomeness that is more powerful
than wholesomeness. For I have seen many men impaled
on a stake for their crimes, and in the war waged by the
general Bhaddasàla in the service of the Nanda royal family
against Chandagutta there were eighty Corpse Dances, for
they say that when a great slaughter has taken place the
headless corpses rise and dance over the battle-field. All of
those men came to destruction through the fruit of their evil
211.Seven, including five of these six, are referred to in Dilemma 4; the extra ones are Puõõa
the worker and Puõõà the slave-girl. The one here not referred to above is Puõõaka the
slave.
212. Dàso and dàsi refer to slaves; bhàtako was one who worked for a wage.
213.Eight elephants, eight horses, eight thousand kahàpaõas, eight women, eight slaves, and
the proceeds from eight villages.

deeds. Yet when King Pasenadi of Kosala gave the unpar-
alleled alms-giving did he receive wealth or glory or happi-
ness in the same life?”
“No, O king, he did not.”
“Then surely, Nàgasena, unwholesomeness is more
powerful?”
“Just, O king, as an inferior grain ripens in a month or
two but the best grain ripens only after five or six months,
good deeds ripen only after a long time. Furthermore, O
king, the results of both good and evil will be experienced
in a future life, but because evil is blameworthy it has been
decreed that those who do evil will be punished by the law,
yet they do not reward those who do good. If they were to
make a law to reward the good doer then good deeds
would also be rewarded in this very life.”
“Very good, Nàgasena, only by one as wise as you
could this puzzle be so well solved. The question put by me
from the ordinary viewpoint has been made clear by you in
the supramundane sense.”
74. Sharing of Merit
“Is it possible for all deceased relatives to share in the merit
of a good deed?”
“No. Only those who are born as hungry ghosts who
feed off the merit of others are able to share in the merit.
Those born in hell, those in heaven, animals, and hungry
ghosts who feed on vomit, or hungry ghosts who hunger
and thirst, or hungry ghosts who are consumed by craving,
do not derive any profit.”

“Then the offerings in those cases are fruitless, since
those for whom they were given derive no profit.”
“No, O king, they are not fruitless nor without result
for the givers themselves derive benefit from it.”
“Convince me of this by a reason.”
“If some people prepared a meal and visited their
relatives but those relatives did not accept the gift, would
that gift be wasted?”
“No, venerable sir, the owners themselves would
have it.”
“Just so, O king, the givers derive benefit from their
almsgiving.”
“Is it then possible to share demerit?”
“This is not a question you should ask, O king. You
will be asking me next why space is boundless and why
men and birds have two legs whilst deer have four!”
“I do not ask you this to annoy you, but there are
many people in the world who are perverted214 or who lack
common sense.”215
“Though it is possible to ripen a crop with water from
a tank it is not possible to use seawater. An evil deed cannot
be shared with one who has not done it and has not con-
sented to it. People convey water long distances by means
of an aqueduct but they cannot convey solid rock in the
same way. Unwholesomeness is a mean thing but whole-
someness is great.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If a tiny drop of water were to fall on the ground
214. Vàmagàmino; pàpagàhino Evil-minded, who take hold of things wrongly.
215. Vicakkhukà — literally without eyes, (or perhaps just plain stupid).

would it flow over ten or twelve leagues?”
“Certainly not, it would only affect the spot where it
fell.”
“Why is that?”
“Because of its minuteness.”
“Just so, O king, unwholesomeness is a mean thing
and because of its minuteness affects only the doer and can-
not be shared. However, if there was a mighty cloudburst
would the water spread around?”
“Certainly, venerable sir, even for ten or twelve leagues.”
“Just so, O king, wholesomeness is great and by
reason of its abundance can be shared by gods and men.”
“Venerable Nàgasena, why is it that unwholesome-
ness is so limited and wholesomeness so much more far-
reaching?”
“Whoever, O king, gives gifts, observes the precepts
and performs the Uposatha, he is glad and at peace, and be-
ing peaceful his goodness grows even more abundantly.
Like a deep pool of water from which as soon as water
flows away on one side it is replenished from all around.
Just so, O king, if a man were to transfer to others the merit
of any good he had done even for a hundred years the more
would his goodness grow. This is why wholesomeness is so
great. However, on doing evil, O king, a man becomes
filled with remorse and his mind cannot escape from the
thought of it, he is depressed and obtains no peace, miser-
able and despairing he wastes away. Just, O king, as a drop
of water falling onto a dry river-bed gains not in volume
but is swallowed up on the very spot where it fell. This is
why unwholesomeness is so mean and minute.”

75. Dreams
“What is this thing that people call a dream and who
dreams it?”
“It is a sign coming across the path of the mind. There
are six kinds of dreams. A person affected by wind sees a
dream, a person affected by bile, by phlegm, by a deity, by
their own habits, by a premonition. It is only the last of
these that is true, all the others are false.”
“When one dreams a dream is one awake or asleep?”
“Neither one nor the other. One dreams when one
sleeps ‘the monkey’s sleep’, which is midway between sleep
and consciousness.”
76. Premature Death
“Venerable Nàgasena, do all living beings die when their
life-span comes to an end or do some die prematurely?”
“Both, O king. Like fruits on a tree that fall sometimes
when ripe and sometimes before they are ripe due to the
wind, or insects or sticks, so too, some beings die when
their life-span ends but others die prematurely.”
“But Nàgasena, all those who die prematurely,
whether they are young or old, have reached the end of
their predetermined life-span. There is no such thing as
premature death.”
“O king, there are seven kinds of premature death for
those who, though they still have some life-span remaining,
die prematurely: starvation, thirst, snake-bite, poison, fire,
drowning, weapons. Death come about in eight ways:

through wind, bile, phlegm, a mixture of bodily fluids,
change of temperature, stress of circumstances, outside
agent, and kamma.
216 Of these, only that through kamma can
be called the end of the life-span; the rest are all premature.”
“Venerable Nàgasena, you say there is premature
death. Give me another reason for that.”
“A mighty fire, O king, that is exhausted and goes out
when its fuel has been totally consumed and not before that
by some other reason, is said to have gone out in the full-
ness of time. Just so a man who dies in old-age without any
accident is said to reach the end of the life-span. However,
in the case of a fire that is put out by a mighty cloudburst it
could not be said that it had gone out in the fullness of time;
so too whoever dies before his time due to any cause other
than kamma is said to die a premature death.”
77. Miracles at Shrines of Arahants
“Are there miracles at the shrines (cetiya) of all the arahants
or only at some?”
“Only at some. By the volitional determination of
three kinds of individuals there is a miracle: by an arahant
while he is still alive, by deities, or by a wise disciple who
has confidence. If there is no such volitional determination
then there is no miracle even at the shrine of an arahant who
had supernormal powers. However, even if there is no
miracle one should have confidence after knowing about
his pure and blameless conduct.”
216. See Dilemma 8.

78. Can Everyone Understand the Dhamma?
“Do all those who practise correctly attain insight into the
Dhamma or are there some who do not?”
“There can be no attaining of insight for those who,
though they practise correctly, are animals, hungry ghosts,
holders of wrong views, frauds (kuhaka), matricides,
patricides, murderers of arahants, schismatics, shedders of
the blood of a Tathàgata, in the robes by theft,
217
gone over
to another sect, violators of nuns, concealing an offence
entailing a meeting of the Order,
218 eunuchs (paõóaka), and
hermaphrodites. Neither is a child under seven years of age
able to realise the Dhamma.”
“What is the reason that a child under seven years of
age is unable to attain insight? For a child is pure in mind
and should be ready to realise the Dhamma.”
“If a child under seven, O king, could feel desire
for things leading to desire, hatred for things arousing
hatred, could be fooled by misleading things and could
distinguish between wholesomeness and unwhole-
someness then insight might be possible for him. How-
ever, the mind of a child under seven, O king, is feeble
and the unconditioned element of nibbàna is weighty
and profound. Therefore, Oking, although he practised
correctly, a child of under seven could not realise the
Dhamma.”
217.Vin. i. 86. Putting on the robe himself he pretends to be a monk.
218.Oddly, no mention is made in this list of those guilty of Pàràjika offences, but they could
be included as frauds.

79. The Bliss of Nibbàna
“Is nibbàna entirely blissful or is it partly painful?”
“It is entirely blissful.”
“But that I cannot accept. Those who seek it have to
practise austerity and exertion of body and mind, absten-
tion from food at the wrong time, suppression of sleep,
restraint of the senses, and they have to give up wealth, fam-
ily and friends. They are blissful who enjoy the pleasures of
the senses but you restrain and prevent such pleasures and
so experience physical and mental discomfort and pain.”
“O king, nibbàna has no pain; what you call pain is not
nibbàna. It is true that those who seek nibbàna experience pain
and discomfort but afterwards they experience the unalloyed
bliss of nibbàna. I will tell you a reason for that. Is there, O
king, such a thing as the bliss of the sovereignty of kings?”
“Yes there is.”
“Is it mixed with pain?”
“No.”
“But why is it then, O king, that when the frontier
provinces have revolted kings have to set out from their
palaces and march over uneven ground, tormented by
mosquitoes and hot winds, and engage in fierce battles at
the risk of their lives?”
“That, venerable Nàgasena, is not the bliss of sover-
eignty. It is only the preliminary stage in the pursuit of that
bliss. It is after they have won it that they enjoy the bliss of
sovereignty. That bliss, Nàgasena, is not mixed with pain.”
“Just so, O king, nibbàna is unalloyed bliss and there
is no pain mixed in it.”

80. Description of Nibbàna
“Is it possible, Nàgasena, to point out the size, shape or
duration of nibbàna by a simile?”
“No it is not possible; there is no other thing like it.”
“Is there then any attribute of nibbàna found in other
things that can be demonstrated by a simile?”
“Yes that can be done.
“As a lotus is unwetted by water, nibbàna is unsullied
by the defilements.
“Like water, it cools the fever of defilements and
quenches the thirst of craving.
“Like medicine, it protects beings who are poisoned
by the defilements, cures the disease of suffering, and nour-
ishes like nectar.
“As the ocean is empty of corpses, nibbàna is empty of
all defilements; as the ocean is not increased by all the
rivers that flow into it, so nibbàna is not increased by all the
beings who attain it; it is the abode of great beings [the
arahants], and it is decorated with the waves of knowledge
and freedom.
“Like food, which sustains life, nibbàna drives away
old age and death; it increases the spiritual strength of
beings; it gives the beauty of virtue, it removes the distress
of the defilements, it relieves the exhaustion of all suffering.
“Like space, it is not born, does not decay or perish, it
does not pass away here and arise elsewhere, it is invin-
cible, thieves cannot steal it, it is not attached to anything,
it is the sphere of ariyans who are like birds in space, it is
unobstructed and it is infinite.

“Like a wish-fulfilling gem, it fulfils all desires, causes
delight and is lustrous.
“Like red sandalwood, it is hard to get, its fragrance
is incomparable and it is praised by good men.
“As ghee is recognisable by its special attributes, so
nibbàna has special attributes; as ghee has a sweet fragrance,
nibbàna has the sweet fragrance of virtue; as ghee has a
delicious taste, nibbàna has the delicious taste of freedom.
“Like a mountain peak, it is very high, immovable, in-
accessible to the defilements, it has no place where defile-
ments can grow, and it is without favouritism or prejudice.”
81. The Realisation of Nibbàna
“You say, Nàgasena, that nibbàna is neither past, nor
present nor future, neither arisen, nor not arisen, nor pro-
ducible.
219 In that case does the man who realises nibbàna re-
alise something already produced, or does he himself
produce it first and then realise it?”
“Neither of these, O king, yet nibbàna does exist.”
“Do not, Nàgasena, answer this question by making it
obscure! Make it clear and elucidate it. It is a point on which
people are bewildered and lost in doubt. Break this dart of
uncertainty.”
“The element of nibbàna does exist, O king, and he
who practises rightly and who rightly comprehends the
formations according to the teachings of the Conqueror, he,
by his wisdom, realises nibbàna.
219.Untraced. However, cf. Dilemma 65

“How is nibbàna to be shown? By freedom from dis-
tress and danger, by purity and by coolness. As a man,
afraid and terrified at having fallen among enemies, would
be relieved and blissful when he had escaped to a safe place;
or as one fallen into a pit of filth would be at ease and glad
when he had got out of the pit and cleaned up; or as one
trapped in a forest fire would be calm and cool when he had
reached a safe spot. As fearful and terrifying should you
regard the anxiety that arises again and again on account of
birth, old age, disease and death; as filth should you regard
gain, honours and fame; as hot and searing should you
regard the three-fold fire of desire, hatred and delusion.
“How does he who is practising rightly realise
nibbàna? He rightly grasps the cyclic nature of formations
and therein he sees only birth, old age, disease and death;
he sees nothing pleasant or agreeable in any part of it.
Seeing nothing there to be taken hold of, as on a red-hot
iron ball, his mind overflows with discontent and a fever
takes hold of his body; hopeless and without a refuge he
becomes disgusted with repeated lives. To him who sees
the terror of the treadmill of life the thought arises, ‘On fire
and blazing is this wheel of life, full of suffering and
despair. If only there could be an end to it, that would be
peaceful, that would be excellent; the cessation of all mental
formations,’ the renunciation of grasping, the destruction
of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbàna!’
“Therewith his mind leaps forward into the state
where there is no becoming. Then has he found peace, then
does he exult and rejoice at the thought, ‘A refuge has been
found at last!’ He strives along the path for the cessation of

formations, searches it out, develops it, and makes much of
it. To that end he stirs up his mindfulness, energy and joy;
and from attending again and again to that thought [of
disgust with mental formations], having transcended the
treadmill of life, he brings the cycle to a halt. One who stops
the treadmill is said to have realised nibbàna.”
82. Where is Nibbàna?
“Is there a place, Nàgasena, where nibbàna is stored up?”
“No there is not, yet it does exist. As there is no place
where fire is stored up yet it may be produced by rubbing
two dry sticks together.’
“But is there any place on which a man might stand
and realise nibbàna?”
“Yes there is; virtue is the place;
220 standing on that,
and with reasoning, wherever he might be, whether in the
land of the Scythians or the Bactrians, whether in China or
Tibet,
221 in Kashmir or Gandhàra, on a mountain top or in
the highest heavens; the one who practises rightly realises
nibbàna. “
“Very good, Nàgasena, you have taught about nibbàna,
you have explained about the realisation of nibbàna, you
have praised the qualities of virtue, shown the right way of
practice, raised aloft the banner of the Dhamma, established
the Dhamma as a leading principle; not barren nor without
fruit are the efforts of those with right aims!”
220. cf. above Question 9 in Chapter One.
221. Cilàta is possibly Tibet. See Geography of Early Buddhism, B.C. Law.