Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Soul

Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Soul

The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala

Chapter 1
The Soul
King Milinda went up to Nàgasena, ex-
changed polite and friendly greetings, and
took his seat respectfully to one side. Then
Milinda began by asking:
1.“How is your reverence known, and what sir, is your
name?”
“O king, I am known as Nàgasena but that is only a
designation in common use, for no permanent individual
can be found.”
Then Milinda called upon the Bactrian Greeks and the
monks to bear witness: “This Nàgasena says that no
permanent individual is implied in his name. Is it possible
to approve of that?” Then he turned to Nàgasena and said,
“If, most venerable Nàgasena, that is true, who is it who
gives you robes, food and shelter? Who lives the righteous
life? Or again, who kills living beings, steals, commits
adultery, tells lies or takes strong drink? If what you say is
true then there is neither merit nor demerit, nor is there any
doer of good or evil deeds and no result of kamma. If,
venerable sir, a man were to kill you there would be no
murder, and it follows that there are no masters or teachers
in your Order. You say that you are called Nàgasena; now
what is that Nàgasena? Is it the hair?”
“I don’t say that, great king.”

“Is it then the nails, teeth, skin or other parts of the
body?”
“Certainly not.”
“Or is it the body, or feelings, or perceptions, or
formations, or consciousness?10 Is it all of these combined?
Or is it something outside of them that is Nàgasena?”
Still Nàgasena answered: “It is none of these.”
“Then, ask as I may, I can discover no Nàgasena.
Nàgasena is an empty sound. Who is it we see before us? It
is a falsehood that your reverence has spoken.”
“You, sir, have been reared in great luxury as be-
comes your noble birth. How did you come here, by foot or
in a chariot?”
“In a chariot, venerable sir.”
“Then, explain sir, what that is. Is it the axle? Or the
wheels, or the chassis, or reins, or yoke that is the chariot?
Is it all of these combined, or is it something apart from
them?”
“It is none of these things, venerable sir.”
“Then, sir, this chariot is an empty sound. You spoke
falsely when you said that you came here in a chariot. You
are a great king of India. Who are you afraid of that you
don’t speak the truth?” Then he called upon the Bactrian
Greeks and the monks to bear witness: “This King Milinda
has said that he came here in a chariot but when asked what
it is, he is unable to show it. Is it possible to approve of that?”
Then the five hundred Bactrian Greeks shouted their
approval and said to the king, “Get out of that if you can!”

“Venerable sir, I have spoken the truth. It is because it
has all these parts that it comes under the term chariot.”
“Very good, sir, your majesty has rightly grasped the
meaning. Even so it is because of the thirty-two kinds of
organic matter in a human body and the five aggregates of
being that I come under the term ‘Nàgasena’. As it was said
by Sister Vajãra in the presence of the Blessed One, ‘Just as
it is by the existence of the various parts that the word
“Chariot” is used, just so is it that when the aggregates of
being are there we talk of a being’.”11
“Most wonderful, Nàgasena, most extraordinary that
you have solved this puzzle, difficult though it was. If the
Buddha himself were here he would approve of your
reply.”
King Milinda went up to Nàgasena, exchanged polite
and friendly greetings, and took his seat respectfully to one
side. Then Milinda began by asking:
2.“How many ‘rains’
12 do you have Nàgasena?”
“Seven, your majesty.”
“How can you say it is your seven; is it you who are
seven or the number that is seven?”
Then Nàgasena said, “Your shadow is now on the
ground. Are you the king, or is the shadow the king?”
“I am the king, Nàgasena, but the shadow comes into
being because of me.”
“Just so, O king, the number of the years is seven, I am
11.S. i. 135.
12.A bhikkhu’s seniority is reckoned by the number of rainy seasons that have passed since
his ordination.

not seven, but it is because of me that the number seven
comes into being and it is mine in the same sense as the
shadow is yours.”
“Most wonderful, Nàgasena, and extraordinary. Well
has this puzzle been solved by you, difficult as it was.”
3.Then the king said, “Venerable sir, will you discuss
with me again?”
“If your majesty will discuss as a scholar, yes; but if
you will discuss as a king, no.”
“How is it then that scholars discuss?”
“When scholars discuss there is a summing up and an
unravelling; one or other is shown to be in error. He admits
his mistake, yet he does not become angry.”
“Then how is it that kings discuss?”
“When a king discusses a matter and advances a
point of view, if anyone differs from him on that point he is
apt to punish him.”
“Very well then, it is as a scholar that I will discuss.
Let your reverence talk without fear.”
“It is well your majesty.”
“Nàgasena, I will ask a question”, said the king.
“Ask it sir.”
“I have asked it, your reverence.”
“Then I have answered.”
“What have you answered?”
“What have you asked?”
Thinking, “This monk is a great scholar, he is quite
able to discuss things with me”, the king instructed his
minister, Devamantiya, to invite him to the palace with a

large company of monks and went away muttering,
“Nàgasena, Nàgasena.”
4.So, Devamantiya, Anantakàya and Mankura went to
Nàgasena’s hermitage to accompany the monks to the
palace. As they were walking along together Anantakàya
said to Nàgasena, “When, your reverence, I say, ‘Nàgasena’
what is that Nàgasena?”
“What do you think that Nàgasena is?”
“The soul, the inner breath, which comes and goes.”
“But if that breath, having gone out, should not return
would that man still be alive?”
“Certainly not.”
“And when those trumpeters and the like have blown
their trumpets does their breath return to them?”
“No venerable sir, it doesn’t.”
“Then why don’t they die?”
“I am not capable of arguing with you sir, pray tell me
how it is.”
“There is no soul in the breath. These inhalations and
exhalations are merely constituent powers of the bodily
frame.” Then the elder13
talked to him on the Abhidhamma
and Anantakàya was satisfied with his explanation.
5.Then, after the monks had arrived at the palace and
finished their meal, the king sat down on a low seat and
asked, “What shall we discuss?”
“Let our discussion be about the Dhamma.”
13. Thera (elder) is nowadays normally used only for bhikkhus of ten or more years standing
but Nàgasena was only seven rains. See Question 2 above.

Then the king said, “What is the purpose, your
reverence, of your going forth and what is the final goal at
which you aim?”
“Our going forth is for the purpose that this suffering
may be extinguished and that no further suffering may
arise; the complete extinction of grasping without
remainder is our final goal.”
“Is it, venerable sir, for such noble reasons that
everyone joins the Order?”
“No. Some enter to escape the tyranny of kings,
some to be safe from robbers, some to escape from debt
and some perhaps to gain a livelihood. However, those
who enter rightly do so for the complete extinction of
grasping.”
6.The king said, “Is there anyone who is not reborn
after death?”
“Yes there is. The one who has no defilements is not
reborn after death; the one who has defilements is reborn.”
“Will you be reborn?”
“If I die with attachment in my mind, yes; but if not,
no.”
7.“Does one who escapes from rebirth do so by the
power of reasoning?”
“He escapes both by reasoning and by wisdom, con-
fidence, virtue, mindfulness, energy and concentration.”
“Is reasoning the same as wisdom?”
“No. Animals have reasoning but they do not have
wisdom.”

8.“What, Nàgasena, is the characteristic mark of
reasoning; and what the mark of wisdom?”
“Taking hold is the mark of reasoning, cutting off is
the mark of wisdom.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“How do barley reapers reap the barley?”
“They grasp the barley into a bunch with the left
hand and, with a sickle in the right hand, they cut the
barley.”
“Just so, O king, the recluse takes hold of his mind
with reasoning and cuts of the defilements with wisdom.”
9.“What, Nàgasena, is the characteristic mark of virtue?”
“Supporting, O king, for it is the basis of all good
qualities: the five controlling faculties14
and the five moral
powers,
15 the seven factors of enlightenment
16 the eight
factors of the noble path,
17 the four foundations of
mindfulness18
the four right efforts,
19
the four bases of
success,
20 the four absorptions,
21 the eight freedoms,
22 the
four modes of concentration23
and the eight great
14.Confidence, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom.
15.Confidence, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom.
16.Mindfulness, investigation, energy, joy, tranquillity, concentration, and equanimity.
17.Right view, –thought, –speech, –action, –livelihood, –effort, –mindfulness, and
–concentration.
18.Mindfulness of the body, feelings, thoughts, and mind-objects.
19.Effort to prevent and remove unwholesome states and to develop and maintain
wholesome states.
20.Eagerness, energy, tenacity, wisdom.
21.Four stages of one-pointedness or jhàna.
22.Eight stages of release of the mind by intense concentration.
23.Meditations on love, compassion, sympathetic-joy, and equanimity.

attainments.
24 Each of these has virtue as its support and in
him who builds on it as the foundation all these good
conditions will not decrease.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Just, O king, as all forms of animal and plant life
flourish with the earth as their support, so does the recluse,
with virtue as the support, develop the five controlling
faculties and so on.
25 And this was said by the Blessed One:
“When a wise man, established well in virtue,
Develops concentration and understanding,
Then as a bhikkhu, ardent and sagacious,
He succeeds in disentangling this tangle.”26
10.“What is the characteristic mark of confidence?”
“Clarification and inspiration. As confidence springs
up in the mind it breaks through the veil of the five
hindrances and the mind becomes clear, serene and
undisturbed; thus confidence clarifies. Inspiration is the
mark when the meditator, perceiving how the minds of
others have been set free, aspires to the attainment of what
he has not yet reached, to the experience of what he has not
yet felt and the realisation of what he has not yet
understood. For this was said by the Blessed One:
“By confidence he crosses over the flood,
By vigilance the sea of life,
24.Four formless jhànas and four form jhànas.
25.cf. S. v. 45.
26.S. i. 13, 165, Vism. (opening verse).

By steadfastness all grief he stills,
By wisdom he is purified.”27
11.“What, venerable sir, is the characteristic mark of
energy?”
“Reinforcing, O king, so that those good qualities,
which it supports, do not fall away.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Just as, O king, when his army has been broken up
by a larger one the king would call to mind every possible
ally to reinforce his army and break up the large army.
Thus reinforcing is the mark of energy. For this was said by
the Blessed One:
“The energetic noble disciple, O monks,
Puts away unwholesomeness and cultivates good,
Shuns the blameworthy and develops the blameless,
And thus does he keep his mind pure.”28
12.“What, Nàgasena, is the characteristic mark of
mindfulness?”
“Noting and keeping in mind. As mindfulness
springs up in the mind of the recluse, he repeatedly notes
the wholesome and unwholesome, blameless and
blameworthy, insignificant and important, dark and light
qualities and those that resemble them thinking, ‘These are
the four foundations of mindfulness, these the four right
efforts, these the four bases of success, these the five
27.S. i. 214; Sn. v 184.
28.A. iv. 110.

controlling faculties, these the five moral powers, these the
seven factors of enlightenment, these are the eight factors of
the noble path, this is serenity, this insight, this vision and
this freedom.’ Thus does he cultivate those qualities that
are desirable and shun those that should be avoided.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“It is like a king’s treasurer who reminds his master of
the size of the army and the amount of wealth in his
treasury.”
“How is keeping in mind a mark of mindfulness?”
“As mindfulness springs up in the mind, he searches
out the categories of good qualities and their opposites
thinking, ‘Such and such qualities are beneficial and such
are harmful’. Thus does he make what is unwholesome in
himself disappear and maintain what is good.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“It is like the Prime Minister of the king who advises
him on the right course of action. And this was said by the
Blessed One:
“Mindfulness, I declare, O monks, is helpful every-
where.”29
13.“What, Nàgasena, is the characteristic mark of
concentration?”
“Leading, O king, for all good qualities have con-
centration as their chief; they incline to it, lead up towards
it.”
“Give me an illustration.”
29.S. v. 115

“As the rafters of a house incline and lead up to the
ridge-pole and the ridge-pole is the highest point of the
roof. So too all good qualities incline and lead up to concen-
tration. And this was said by the Blessed One:
“Monks, develop concentration, a monk who is
concentrated sees things as they really are.”30
14.“What, Nàgasena, is the characteristic mark of
wisdom?”
“Illuminating,
31
O king. When wisdom springs up in
the mind it dispels the darkness of ignorance, causes the
radiance of vision to arise, makes the light of knowledge
shine forth and makes the noble truths plain. Thus does the
meditator perceive with the clearest wisdom, the
impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and soullessness of all
formations.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“It is like a lamp, O king, which in a dark room would
illuminate it and make the objects there plainly visible.”
15.“These qualities that are so different, Nàgasena, do
they bring about one and the same result?”
“They do, the destruction of the defilements of the
mind, just as the various parts of an army such as
elephants, cavalry, war chariots and archers bring about
one result — the conquest of the opposing army.”
“Well put Nàgasena, you are clever in reply.”
30.S. iii. 13, v. 414; cf. Asl. 162.
31.As well as cutting off already given above