Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas IV
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 11
The Solving of Dilemmas (IV)
31. The Murder of Moggallàna
“This was said by the Blessed One, ‘Mog-
gallàna is the chief of those among my dis-
ciples who possess supernormal power.’
136
Yet he was beaten to death with clubs.
137 Why did his pow-
ers fail him?”
“That, O king, was because he was then overwhelmed
by the greater power of kamma. Even among things that are
beyond the scope of the imagination one may be more pow-
erful than the others. Among things that are unimaginable
kamma is the most powerful. It is precisely the effect of
kamma that overcomes and rules the rest, for no other influ-
ence is of any avail to the man in whom kamma is working
out its inevitable result. Just as a man who has been found
guilty of a crime will be punished and there is nothing his
relatives may do to prevent it.”
32. Secrecy of the Vinaya
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘The Dhamma and Vinaya
proclaimed by the Tathàgata shine forth when they are dis-
136.A. i. 23.
137.DhA. iii. 65f. Commentary on Dhp. vv 137 140
played and not when they are unrevealed.’
138 So why is the
recitation of the Pàtimokkha done only in the presence of
bhikkhus139 and why is the Vinaya Piñaka closed and privy to
bhikkhus?”140
“O king, the reason for the Pàtimokkha being open
only to bhikkhus is that it is a custom of all previous
Buddhas, secondly out of respect for the Vinaya and thirdly
out of respect for the bhikkhus. Just, O king, as the traditions
of warriors are handed down among warriors alone so it is
the tradition of the Tathàgatas that the recitation of the
Pàtimokkha should take place only among bhikkhus. The
Vinaya is venerable and profound. He who has reached
proficiency in it may exhort others thus, ‘Let not this
profound teaching fall into the hands of those who are
unwise where it would be despised and condemned,
treated shamefully, ridiculed and found fault with’.
141 Just
as there are priceless possessions of kings that should not
be used by men of the world, so too, the training and
138.A. i. 283.
139.Vin. i. 115, 135.
140.There is no prohibition against teaching the Vinaya to lay people. A wise lay person
should learn the Vinaya to avoid corrupting the monks.
141.T.W. Rhys Davids had this to say about esoteric Buddhism; “The fact is that there has
never been any such thing as esoteric teaching in Buddhism, and that the modern so
called esoteric Buddhism is neither esoteric nor Buddhism. Its tenets, so far as they are
Indian at all, are perfectly accessible, are well known to all those who choose to study
the books of Indian mysticism, and are Hindu, not Buddhist. They are, indeed, quite
contradictory to Buddhism, of which the authors of what they ignorantly call Esoteric
Buddhism know but very little —- that little being only a portion of those beliefs which
have been the common ground to all religious teachers in India. If one doctrine, more
than any other, is distinctive of Buddhism, it is the ignoring, in ethics of the time-
honoured belief in a soul — that is, in the old sense, in a separate creature inside the
body, which flies out of it, like a bird out of a cage, when the body dies. Yet the
Theosophists, who believe, I am told, in seven souls inside the human body (which
would be worse according to true Buddhism than seven devils), still venture to call
themselves Buddhists, and do not see the absurdity of their position!”
traditions of the Blessed One for bhikkhus are their priceless
possessions. That is why the recitation of the Pàtimokkha
takes place only among bhikkhus.”
33. Intentional Lying
“It has been said by the Blessed One, ‘Intentional lying is an
offence involving expulsion.’
142 Yet he also said, ‘Intention-
al lying is a light offence that must be confessed to another
bhikkhu.’
143
How can both of these be right?”
“If a man were to strike another with his hand what
punishment would you give him?”
“If the victim refused to overlook the matter we would
fine the assailant.”
“But if a man were to strike you, what punishment
would you give him?”
“We would cut off his hands and feet, scalp him,
plunder all his wealth and uproot his family up to the
seventh generation.”
“Just so, O king, the offence is light or heavy according
to the subject matter. Intentional lying about the attainment
of superhuman states such as the absorptions, supernormal
power or the paths of spiritual attainment is an offence in-
volving expulsion. However, intentional lying about other
matters is only an offence involving confession.”
142.Vin. iii. 94ff.
143.Vin. iii. 59, 66; Vin. iv. 2
34. Investigations of the Bodhisatta
“It was said by the Blessed One in the discourse on natural
law, ‘Long ago had the Bodhisatta’s parents, chief disciples,
etc., been predestined for the Bodhisatta.’
144 Yet it was also
said, ‘While still in the Tusita heaven the Bodhisatta makes
eight investigations: whether the right moment has come
for him to be reborn, the continent, the country, the family,
the mother, the time in the womb, the month of the birth,
and the time of the going forth.’
145 If his parents were
already predestined why was it necessary for him to
consider these things?”
“Both these statements, O king, are correct. With
respect to eight things the future should be investigated be-
fore it comes to pass. A merchant should inspect goods be-
fore he buys them, an elephant should try a path with his
trunk before he treads it, a carter should survey a ford be-
fore he crosses it, a pilot should plumb a shore he has not
seen before, a physician should assess the remaining life-
span of a patient before treating him, a traveller should in-
spect a bridge before he walks on it, a bhikkhu should know
the time before he starts his meal, and a Bodhisatta should
investigate the family before he is born.”
35. On suicide
“It has been said by the Blessed One, ‘A monk should not
try to commit suicide [throw himself down from a preci-
144. Mahàpadhàna Sutta, D. ii. 17-20.
145.Jà. i. 48; DA. 428, (only 5 mentioned).
pice]; whoever does so should be dealt with according to
the rule.’
146 Yet, on the other hand, you say that on what-
ever topic he was addressing the monks, he always, and
with various similes, exhorted them to bring about the des-
truction of birth, old age, disease and death, and whoso-
ever overcame them he honoured with high praise.”
“O king, it is because an arahant is of great benefit to
beings that he laid down that prohibition. One who has
reached the goal is like a boat to carry people over the
floods of sensuality, desire for rebirth, personality belief
and ignorance; like a mighty rain-cloud he fills their minds
with satisfaction and he is a guide to those who are lost. Out
of compassion for living beings the Blessed One said, ‘A
monk is not to commit suicide.’ And what is the reason the
Blessed One urged us to put an end to birth, old age and
death? Because of the limitless nature of the suffering of the
round of rebirths the Blessed One, out of compassion for
beings, urged them in many ways, with various similes to
free themselves from the round of rebirths.”
36. Protection by Loving-kindness
“It has been said by the Blessed One, ‘These eleven advan-
tages may be expected by one who practises and makes a
habit of loving-kindness towards all beings: he sleeps in
peace; he wakes in peace; he dreams no evil dreams; he be-
comes dear to human beings and to non-human beings; the
gods protect him; neither fire, nor poison, nor weapons can
146.Vin. iii. 74, 82 (an offence of wrong doing).
harm him; his mind is quickly concentrated; his counten-
ance is serene; he dies unconfused; and if he attains no
higher he is reborn in the Brahmà realm.’
147 Why then was
the youth Sàma, who dwelt full of loving-kindness, hit by a
poisoned arrow fired by King Piliyakkha?”148
“O king, these eleven virtues of loving-kindness are
dependent on love itself and not on the character of the
person who practises it. Sàma practised the meditation on
loving-kindness all the time. However, while he was
collecting water, his mind lapsed from the meditation and
at that moment King Piliyakkha shot him, so the arrow was
able to hurt him.”
37. Why Did Devadatta Prosper?
“Although you say that good deeds lead to rebirth in heaven
or fortunate human births and that evil deeds lead to rebirth
in states of misery or unfortunate human births; Devadatta,
who was full of evil qualities, was often born in a position of
superiority over the Bodhisatta,
149 who was full of good
qualities. Thus, Nàgasena, when Devadatta became the fam-
ily chaplain of Brahmadatta, the king of Benares, then the
Bodhisatta was a wretched outcaste. This is one case in
which the Bodhisatta was inferior to Devadatta in birth and
reputation. Again, when Devadatta became a king, a mighty
monarch of the earth, the Bodhisatta was an elephant. In that
147.A. v. 342, Jà. 1 61; Vism. 311f.
148.Jà. No. 540 (Jà. vi. 76).
149. cf. Jà. Nos. 72, 122, 222, 241, 313, 358, 477, 438, 472, 474, 482, 492, 514, 516, 518
case too, the Bodhisatta was inferior to Devadatta; and in
many other cases too.”
“It was as you say, O king.”
“Then it follows that good and evil bear equal fruit.”
“Nay, not so, O king. Devadatta was opposed by every-
body but no one was hostile to the Bodhisatta. Yet, when he
was a king, Devadatta protected and served the people and
gave gifts to recluses and brahmans according to his inclina-
tion. Of no one can it be said, O king, that without generosity,
self-restraint, observance of precepts and other virtues, he can
reach prosperity. Nevertheless, all beings who are swept
along in the endless round of rebirths meet with pleasant and
unpleasant companions just as water whirled along in a river
meets with pure and impure things. However, the compari-
son between the Bodhisatta and Devadatta should be regard-
ed in the light of the unimaginable length of the round of
rebirths; and it should also be remembered that the Bodhisatta
was in heaven for aeons while Devadatta boiled in hell.”
38. The Weakness of Women
“It is said that a woman will always commit adultery if she
finds a suitable lover.
150 Yet Mahàsodha’s wife refused to
do any wrong even though offered a thousand pieces of
gold.”151
150.Jà. No. 542 (Jà. v. 435). One should not overlook the fact that if a woman does commit
adultery, at least one man is usually involved too. So one should not infer that men are
any more virtuous than women. If one finds a passage about women that seems
derogatory, one should remember that such exhortations were given to celibate monks
to restrain their natural inclinations. Nuns who wish to practise the holy-life should
reflect similarly on the wickedness of men.
“Amaradevã was virtuous. Through fear of censure in
this world and through the fear of suffering in purgatory
and because she loved her husband, and despised immo-
rality and treasured virtue — for all of these reasons the
opportunity seemed not fit to her. Her husband, Mahà-
sodha, was an ideal man, so she found no other man com-
parable to him; so for this reason too, she did no wrong.”
39. ânanda’s Courage
“It was said by the Blessed One that arahants have laid aside
all fear.
152
Yet when the intoxicated elephant Dhanapàlaka
was charging towards the Buddha five hundred arahants
fled, leaving ânanda alone to protect the Buddha.
153 If
arahants are free from all fear why did they flee?”
“They did not flee because of fear, O king, the arahants
are free from fear. They only moved aside so ânanda’s
devotion to the Buddha would be manifested. They
realised that if they didn’t move the elephant wouldn’t be
able to approach. ânanda, who was not yet an arahant,
remained by the Buddha’s side to protect him and thus his
courage and devotion were displayed. Because of this
event great masses of people were emancipated from the
bondage of defilements. It was because they foresaw these
advantages that they moved aside.”
151.Jà. vi. 367.
152.Dhp. v 351; Sn. 621.
153.Vin. ii. 194; Jà. v. 33ff. The ferocious elephant was known as Nàëàgiri but after he was
tamed by the Buddha’s mettà he bowed down and worshipped him. The crowd was
thrilled to see this transformation and heaped ornaments upon the elephant’s back.
Henceforth he was known as Dhanapàlaka, bearer of wealth.
0. The Buddha’s Change of Heart
“You say that the Buddha is omniscient, yet when the
company of monks led by Sàriputta and Moggallàna had
been dismissed by him the Sakyans of Càtumà and Brahmà
Sahampati placated the Buddha with similes.
154 Did he
then not know those similes? If he did then why did he
need to be placated?”
“The Tathàgata, O king, was omniscient yet he was
conciliated by those similes. It was by means of similes that
he himself had first preached that he was conciliated, and it
was being thus won over that he signified his approval. It
was, O king, as when an attendant novice serves his teacher
with almsfood brought by the teacher himself and thereby
pleases him and wins him over.”
Showing posts with label Milinda Panha. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Milinda Panha. Show all posts
Monday, May 23, 2011
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas III
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas III
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 10
The Solving of Dilemmas (III)
19.Dhamma is Best
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘For it is the
Dhamma, O Vàseññha, which is the best in
the world.’
109
Yet you say that the devout
layman who has gained stream-entry ought to pay respect
to a novice even though he has no such spiritual attain-
ment. If the Dhamma is indeed best then that custom is in-
appropriate.”
“O king, there is a reason for that custom. There are
twenty personal qualities110
and two outward signs that
entitle a recluse to respect. He rejoices in the excellent
Dhamma, he has the highest kind of self-control, he has
good conduct, because of his mode of living [on alms], he
is abstemious, he restrains his senses, he is patient, he is
gentle, he lives alone, he delights in solitude, he delights
in meditation, he is endowed with shame and fear of
wrong-doing, he is energetic, he is earnest, he undertakes
the precepts, he recites the scriptures, he questions the
learned about the meaning, he delights in virtue, being
homeless he is free from worldly attachments, he fulfils
the precepts, and he has the two outward signs — a shav-
109.D. iii. 93.
110.Untraced, see also Dilemma 62.
en head and the yellow robe. In the practice and develop-
ment of all these things a recluse lives. By undertaking this
training and developing the virtues of a recluse he is pro-
gressing towards arahantship. Thus, because he sees him as
in the company of the most worthy ones, the devout lay-
man thinks it right and proper to revere the recluse though
he may be just an ordinary person. Moreover, O king, be-
cause he sees him as one who is maintaining the monastic
traditions, so too does the devout layman pay respect to
the recluse. If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two des-
tinations await him; either he must enter the Order that
very day or else he must attain parinibbàna. Immovable, O
king, is the state of renunciation, glorious and most exalt-
ed the condition of being a member of the Order of the
Blessed One.”
20. The Compassion of the Buddha
“You say that the Tathàgata protects beings from harm and
blesses them with goodness,
111
yet when the Blessed One
was preaching the discourse on the simile of the great mass
of fire112
to the monks, hot blood was ejected from the
mouths of sixty monks. By his delivery of that discourse
they came to harm and not good so that statement of yours
is wrong.”
“What happened to them was of their own doing.”
“But, Nàgasena, if the Tathàgata had not delivered
111.Untraced but cf. A. i. 20.
112.A. iv. 128-135.
that discourse would they have vomited hot blood?”
“No. When they took wrongly what was said the
burning was kindled within them.”
“Then it must have been that the Tathàgata was the
chief cause to destroy them. If a snake were to crawl into an
anthill, and a man in want of earth were to break into it and
take the earth away, and so the snake was to die for want of
air, would not the snake have been killed by that man’s
action?”
“Yes, O king. Nevertheless, when the Tathàgata de-
livered a discourse he never did so with malice but
preached totally free from malice. Those who were practis-
ing rightly were enlightened, but those were practising
wrongly, fell. Just, O king, as when a man shakes a mango
tree, those fruits that are strongly fastened to it remain un-
disturbed but those that have rotten stalks fall to the
ground.”
“Then did not those monks fall because of the dis-
course?”
“Could a carpenter by doing nothing to a piece of
timber and simply laying it aside, make it straight and fit
for use?”
“No venerable sir.”
“Just so, O king, the Tathàgata could not, by merely
watching over his disciples, have opened the eyes of those
who were ready to see. However, by getting rid of those
who took his words wrongly he saved those who were
prepared to be saved, and it was because of their own
defects that the evil-minded, fell.”
21. The modesty of the Buddha
“This too was said by the Blessed One:
“Control of the body is good,
Good is control of speech,
Control of the mind is good,
Good is control is everything.”113
“Yet when the Tathàgata was seated in the midst of the four
congregations [monks, nuns, laymen and laywomen] he
showed to Brahman Sela what should not be shown in
public — the male organ concealed in a sheath.
114 If he did
so then the first statement is false.”
“The Blessed One did show to Sela the Brahman what
should not be shown in public but it was by means of
supernormal power that he created an image of it and only
Sela saw that image. To him, in whom doubts had arisen
about the Tathàgata, the Master showed the male organ
concealed in a sheath by means of supernormal power for
the sake of awakening him to the truth. Skilled in means, O
king, was the Tathàgata. For the sake of scorning physical
beauty the Master took Venerable Nanda to the celestial
realm to see the lovely maidens there115 and by means of a
piece of clean white cloth did he awaken Venerable Cåëa-
panthaka to the impurity of the body.”116
113.S. L 73; Dhp. v 361.
114.M. ii. Sta. 92; Sn. 103. This refers to one of the marks of the Buddha predicted by
astrology. Not being able to see this, Sela was still in doubt.
115.Jà. ii. 92-94.
116.Jà. i. 116ff
22. The Perfect Speech of the Buddha
“Sàriputta the chief disciple said, ‘The Tathàgata is perfect
in speech, there is no fault of speech in the Tathàgata con-
cerning which he should have to take care that no one else
should know it.’
117 So why did the Buddha use harsh and
abusive words to Sudinna the Kalanda and call him a
stupid fellow?”118
“That was not out of rudeness, O king, but merely to
show him the foolish and contemptible nature of his con-
duct in a way that would do him no harm. If any man in
this birth does not attain to perception of the Four Noble
Truths, his life has been in vain. The Blessed One used
words of truth, they were no exaggeration. He admonished
others only to destroy the disease of unwholesomeness. His
words, even when stern, softened men’s pride and made
them humble. They were full of compassion and aimed at
benefit as the words of a father to his children.”
23. The Talking Tree
“The Tathàgata said:
“Brahman! Why do you ask an unconscious thing,
which cannot hear you, how it is today?
117.D. iii. 217.
118.Vin. iii. 20. The rule forbidding sexual intercourse was laid down because Sudinna was
persuaded by his former wife to preserve the family line. Notably, because he was the
first offender, he was allowed to remain a monk after his offence.
Active, intelligent and full of life, how can you speak to
this so senseless thing, this wild Palàsa tree?”119
“Yet, on the other hand, the Tathàgata said:
“And thus the aspen tree made reply,
‘I, Bhàradvàja, can speak too. Listen to me.’
120
“If, Nàgasena, a tree is an unconscious thing then this latter
statement must be false.”
“When the Blessed One said, ‘aspen tree’ it was just a
conventional way of speaking, for though a tree being un-
conscious cannot speak, the word ‘tree’ was used as a des-
ignation for the deity who dwelt in it and this is a well
known convention. Just, O king as a wagon laden with corn
is called a ‘corn-wagon’ though it is not made of corn, it is
made of wood. The Tathàgata, when expounding the
Dhamma, did so by means of the common mode of speech.”
24. The Last Meal
“It was said by the elders who convened the First Buddhist
Council, ‘When he had eaten Cunda the smith’s food, thus
have I heard, the Buddha felt a dire sickness, a sharp pain
even unto death.’
121
Yet the Blessed One also said, ‘These
two offerings of food, ânanda, are of equal merit and are
much more effective than any others: that, after which the
119.Jà. iii. 24.
120.Jà. iv. 210.
121.D. ii. 128.
Tathàgata attains to supreme enlightenment; and that, after
which the Tathàgata attains to parinibbàna’.
122
“If severe pains fell upon him after taking that last
meal then the latter statement must be wrong.”
“The last offering of food is of great advantage be-
cause of the Tathàgata’s attainment of parinibbàna. It was
not because of the food that the sickness fell upon the Bless-
ed One but because of the extreme weakness of his body
and the proximity of his death. These two offerings of food
were of great and incomparable merit because of the attain-
ment of the nine successive absorptions in forward and re-
verse order, which the Tathàgata gained after partaking of
that food.”
25. Adoration of Relics
“The Blessed One said, ‘Do not hinder yourselves, ânanda,
with honouring the remains of the Tathàgata.’
123
Yet on the
other hand he said, ‘Honour the relics of him who is worthy
of honour, acting in that way you will go from this world to
heaven.’
124 Which of these statements is right?”
“It was not to all men, O king, but to the sons of the
conqueror [monks] that the first advice was given. Paying
reverence to relics is not their work, but rather grasping the
true nature of all formations, reasoning [paying attention to
122.D. ii. 135.
123.D. ii. 141.
124.Vv. 75 v 8
impermanence etc.], insight meditation, getting hold of the
essence of the meditation object, devotion to their own
spiritual welfare, that is the work of the monks. Just, O
king, as it is the business of princes to learn the arts of
warfare and the laws of property while husbandry, trading
and care of cattle are the business of householders.”
26. The Buddha’s Foot is Injured
“You say that when the Blessed One walked along, the
great earth, unconscious though it is, filled up the hollows
and levelled the ground before his feet.
125 Yet you say that
a splinter of rock grazed his foot.
126
Why then didn’t that
splinter of rock turn away from his foot?”
“O king, the splinter of rock did not fall by itself, but a
rock was thrown down by Devadatta. Two rocks came
together and intercepted it but a splinter of rock broke off and
grazed the Blessed One’s foot. A thing intercepted can easily
slip through just as water taken up in the hands can easily slip
through the fingers.”
27. The True Recluse
“The Blessed One said, ‘A man becomes a recluse by the
destruction of the floods [sensuality, desire for rebirth,
125.Untraced, but cf. DA. 45.
126.Vin. ii. 193.
personality belief and ignorance].’
127 Yet he also said, ‘He
is known in the world as a recluse who has these four
qualities: patience, moderation in food, relinquishment and
being without possessions.’
128 Now these four qualities are
also found in those who are still imperfect, in whom the
defilements have not yet been totally rooted out. This too is
a double-edged problem.”
“Both these statements, O king, were made by the
Blessed One but the first is an inclusive statement whereas
the second was said of the characteristics of recluses in
general.”
28. The Boasting of the Buddha
“The Blessed One said, ‘If anyone should speak in praise of
me, my teaching or the Order you should not on account of
that be elated.’
129 Yet he was so delighted when Sela the
Brahman praised him that he magnified his own virtue and
said, ‘A king, Sela, am I, the king supreme of righteousness.
The royal chariot wheel of righteousness do I set rolling on
— the wheel that no one can ever turn back.’
130
This too is
a double-edged problem.”
“Both statements, O king, are correct but the first was
made to set forth truthfully and exactly the real nature of
the teaching. The second passage was not spoken for gain,
127.A. ii. 238, Pug. 63.
128.Jà. No. 441.
129.D. L 3; cf. M. i. 140.
130.M. ii. Sta. 92; Sn. v 554
fame, nor in a biased way, nor for the sake of winning over
followers but was spoken with compassion and the know-
ledge that thereby three hundred brahmins would attain to
knowledge of the truth.”
29. Who Deserves Punishment?
“The Blessed One said, ‘Doing no injury to anyone, dwell
full of love and kindness in the world.’
131 Yet he also said,
‘Restrain him who deserves restraint and encourage him
who deserves encouragement.’
132 Now, restraint means the
cutting off of hands and feet, imprisonment and so forth. If
the first statement is correct then the second cannot be
right.”
“O king, to do no injury is a doctrine approved of by
all the Buddhas; the second injunction however was used
figuratively. It means restrain the agitated mind, encourage
the slothful mind; restrain the unwholesome mind, encour-
age the wholesome mind; restrain unwise reflection, en-
courage wise reflection; restrain wrong practice, encourage
right practice; the ignoble should be restrained, the noble
encouraged; the thief [the evil-minded monk who desires
gain, praise and fame] should be restrained and the honest
man [the sincere monk who desires only to destroy defile-
ments] should be encouraged.”
“Now you have come round to the sense in my question.
For how, venerable Nàgasena, is a robber to be subdued?”
131.Jà. No. 451 (Jà. iv. 71) v 9.
132.Jà. No. 521 (Jà. v. 116) v 19
“Thus, great king: if deserving rebuke let him be
rebuked, if deserving a fine let him be fined, if deserving
banishment let him be banished, if deserving death let him
be put to death.”
“Is then, Nàgasena, the execution of robbers part of
the doctrine laid down by the Tathàgata?”
“Certainly not, O king. Whosoever may be put to
death, he does not suffer execution by reason of the opinion
put forward by the Tathàgata. He suffers by reason of what
he himself has done.”133
30. Dismissal of the order
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘I harbour not anger nor
sulkiness’.
134 Yet he dismissed Sàriputta and Moggallàna
with their disciples.
135 Was it then not in anger that he did
this?”
“The Tathàgata did dismiss the monks but not in
anger. It was due to what they themselves had done that
they were dismissed. As the great earth does not feel anger
if a man stumbles and falls. It is the man’s own fault that
he stumbles. So too the Blessed One does not feel ill-will of
any kind. He sent them away knowing, ‘It will be for their
good, happiness, purification and deliverance from
suffering’.”
133.Capital punishment was the norm and severe corporal punishment was also practised
in the Buddha’s time.
134.Sn. v 19.
135.M. ii. Sta. 67.
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 10
The Solving of Dilemmas (III)
19.Dhamma is Best
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘For it is the
Dhamma, O Vàseññha, which is the best in
the world.’
109
Yet you say that the devout
layman who has gained stream-entry ought to pay respect
to a novice even though he has no such spiritual attain-
ment. If the Dhamma is indeed best then that custom is in-
appropriate.”
“O king, there is a reason for that custom. There are
twenty personal qualities110
and two outward signs that
entitle a recluse to respect. He rejoices in the excellent
Dhamma, he has the highest kind of self-control, he has
good conduct, because of his mode of living [on alms], he
is abstemious, he restrains his senses, he is patient, he is
gentle, he lives alone, he delights in solitude, he delights
in meditation, he is endowed with shame and fear of
wrong-doing, he is energetic, he is earnest, he undertakes
the precepts, he recites the scriptures, he questions the
learned about the meaning, he delights in virtue, being
homeless he is free from worldly attachments, he fulfils
the precepts, and he has the two outward signs — a shav-
109.D. iii. 93.
110.Untraced, see also Dilemma 62.
en head and the yellow robe. In the practice and develop-
ment of all these things a recluse lives. By undertaking this
training and developing the virtues of a recluse he is pro-
gressing towards arahantship. Thus, because he sees him as
in the company of the most worthy ones, the devout lay-
man thinks it right and proper to revere the recluse though
he may be just an ordinary person. Moreover, O king, be-
cause he sees him as one who is maintaining the monastic
traditions, so too does the devout layman pay respect to
the recluse. If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two des-
tinations await him; either he must enter the Order that
very day or else he must attain parinibbàna. Immovable, O
king, is the state of renunciation, glorious and most exalt-
ed the condition of being a member of the Order of the
Blessed One.”
20. The Compassion of the Buddha
“You say that the Tathàgata protects beings from harm and
blesses them with goodness,
111
yet when the Blessed One
was preaching the discourse on the simile of the great mass
of fire112
to the monks, hot blood was ejected from the
mouths of sixty monks. By his delivery of that discourse
they came to harm and not good so that statement of yours
is wrong.”
“What happened to them was of their own doing.”
“But, Nàgasena, if the Tathàgata had not delivered
111.Untraced but cf. A. i. 20.
112.A. iv. 128-135.
that discourse would they have vomited hot blood?”
“No. When they took wrongly what was said the
burning was kindled within them.”
“Then it must have been that the Tathàgata was the
chief cause to destroy them. If a snake were to crawl into an
anthill, and a man in want of earth were to break into it and
take the earth away, and so the snake was to die for want of
air, would not the snake have been killed by that man’s
action?”
“Yes, O king. Nevertheless, when the Tathàgata de-
livered a discourse he never did so with malice but
preached totally free from malice. Those who were practis-
ing rightly were enlightened, but those were practising
wrongly, fell. Just, O king, as when a man shakes a mango
tree, those fruits that are strongly fastened to it remain un-
disturbed but those that have rotten stalks fall to the
ground.”
“Then did not those monks fall because of the dis-
course?”
“Could a carpenter by doing nothing to a piece of
timber and simply laying it aside, make it straight and fit
for use?”
“No venerable sir.”
“Just so, O king, the Tathàgata could not, by merely
watching over his disciples, have opened the eyes of those
who were ready to see. However, by getting rid of those
who took his words wrongly he saved those who were
prepared to be saved, and it was because of their own
defects that the evil-minded, fell.”
21. The modesty of the Buddha
“This too was said by the Blessed One:
“Control of the body is good,
Good is control of speech,
Control of the mind is good,
Good is control is everything.”113
“Yet when the Tathàgata was seated in the midst of the four
congregations [monks, nuns, laymen and laywomen] he
showed to Brahman Sela what should not be shown in
public — the male organ concealed in a sheath.
114 If he did
so then the first statement is false.”
“The Blessed One did show to Sela the Brahman what
should not be shown in public but it was by means of
supernormal power that he created an image of it and only
Sela saw that image. To him, in whom doubts had arisen
about the Tathàgata, the Master showed the male organ
concealed in a sheath by means of supernormal power for
the sake of awakening him to the truth. Skilled in means, O
king, was the Tathàgata. For the sake of scorning physical
beauty the Master took Venerable Nanda to the celestial
realm to see the lovely maidens there115 and by means of a
piece of clean white cloth did he awaken Venerable Cåëa-
panthaka to the impurity of the body.”116
113.S. L 73; Dhp. v 361.
114.M. ii. Sta. 92; Sn. 103. This refers to one of the marks of the Buddha predicted by
astrology. Not being able to see this, Sela was still in doubt.
115.Jà. ii. 92-94.
116.Jà. i. 116ff
22. The Perfect Speech of the Buddha
“Sàriputta the chief disciple said, ‘The Tathàgata is perfect
in speech, there is no fault of speech in the Tathàgata con-
cerning which he should have to take care that no one else
should know it.’
117 So why did the Buddha use harsh and
abusive words to Sudinna the Kalanda and call him a
stupid fellow?”118
“That was not out of rudeness, O king, but merely to
show him the foolish and contemptible nature of his con-
duct in a way that would do him no harm. If any man in
this birth does not attain to perception of the Four Noble
Truths, his life has been in vain. The Blessed One used
words of truth, they were no exaggeration. He admonished
others only to destroy the disease of unwholesomeness. His
words, even when stern, softened men’s pride and made
them humble. They were full of compassion and aimed at
benefit as the words of a father to his children.”
23. The Talking Tree
“The Tathàgata said:
“Brahman! Why do you ask an unconscious thing,
which cannot hear you, how it is today?
117.D. iii. 217.
118.Vin. iii. 20. The rule forbidding sexual intercourse was laid down because Sudinna was
persuaded by his former wife to preserve the family line. Notably, because he was the
first offender, he was allowed to remain a monk after his offence.
Active, intelligent and full of life, how can you speak to
this so senseless thing, this wild Palàsa tree?”119
“Yet, on the other hand, the Tathàgata said:
“And thus the aspen tree made reply,
‘I, Bhàradvàja, can speak too. Listen to me.’
120
“If, Nàgasena, a tree is an unconscious thing then this latter
statement must be false.”
“When the Blessed One said, ‘aspen tree’ it was just a
conventional way of speaking, for though a tree being un-
conscious cannot speak, the word ‘tree’ was used as a des-
ignation for the deity who dwelt in it and this is a well
known convention. Just, O king as a wagon laden with corn
is called a ‘corn-wagon’ though it is not made of corn, it is
made of wood. The Tathàgata, when expounding the
Dhamma, did so by means of the common mode of speech.”
24. The Last Meal
“It was said by the elders who convened the First Buddhist
Council, ‘When he had eaten Cunda the smith’s food, thus
have I heard, the Buddha felt a dire sickness, a sharp pain
even unto death.’
121
Yet the Blessed One also said, ‘These
two offerings of food, ânanda, are of equal merit and are
much more effective than any others: that, after which the
119.Jà. iii. 24.
120.Jà. iv. 210.
121.D. ii. 128.
Tathàgata attains to supreme enlightenment; and that, after
which the Tathàgata attains to parinibbàna’.
122
“If severe pains fell upon him after taking that last
meal then the latter statement must be wrong.”
“The last offering of food is of great advantage be-
cause of the Tathàgata’s attainment of parinibbàna. It was
not because of the food that the sickness fell upon the Bless-
ed One but because of the extreme weakness of his body
and the proximity of his death. These two offerings of food
were of great and incomparable merit because of the attain-
ment of the nine successive absorptions in forward and re-
verse order, which the Tathàgata gained after partaking of
that food.”
25. Adoration of Relics
“The Blessed One said, ‘Do not hinder yourselves, ânanda,
with honouring the remains of the Tathàgata.’
123
Yet on the
other hand he said, ‘Honour the relics of him who is worthy
of honour, acting in that way you will go from this world to
heaven.’
124 Which of these statements is right?”
“It was not to all men, O king, but to the sons of the
conqueror [monks] that the first advice was given. Paying
reverence to relics is not their work, but rather grasping the
true nature of all formations, reasoning [paying attention to
122.D. ii. 135.
123.D. ii. 141.
124.Vv. 75 v 8
impermanence etc.], insight meditation, getting hold of the
essence of the meditation object, devotion to their own
spiritual welfare, that is the work of the monks. Just, O
king, as it is the business of princes to learn the arts of
warfare and the laws of property while husbandry, trading
and care of cattle are the business of householders.”
26. The Buddha’s Foot is Injured
“You say that when the Blessed One walked along, the
great earth, unconscious though it is, filled up the hollows
and levelled the ground before his feet.
125 Yet you say that
a splinter of rock grazed his foot.
126
Why then didn’t that
splinter of rock turn away from his foot?”
“O king, the splinter of rock did not fall by itself, but a
rock was thrown down by Devadatta. Two rocks came
together and intercepted it but a splinter of rock broke off and
grazed the Blessed One’s foot. A thing intercepted can easily
slip through just as water taken up in the hands can easily slip
through the fingers.”
27. The True Recluse
“The Blessed One said, ‘A man becomes a recluse by the
destruction of the floods [sensuality, desire for rebirth,
125.Untraced, but cf. DA. 45.
126.Vin. ii. 193.
personality belief and ignorance].’
127 Yet he also said, ‘He
is known in the world as a recluse who has these four
qualities: patience, moderation in food, relinquishment and
being without possessions.’
128 Now these four qualities are
also found in those who are still imperfect, in whom the
defilements have not yet been totally rooted out. This too is
a double-edged problem.”
“Both these statements, O king, were made by the
Blessed One but the first is an inclusive statement whereas
the second was said of the characteristics of recluses in
general.”
28. The Boasting of the Buddha
“The Blessed One said, ‘If anyone should speak in praise of
me, my teaching or the Order you should not on account of
that be elated.’
129 Yet he was so delighted when Sela the
Brahman praised him that he magnified his own virtue and
said, ‘A king, Sela, am I, the king supreme of righteousness.
The royal chariot wheel of righteousness do I set rolling on
— the wheel that no one can ever turn back.’
130
This too is
a double-edged problem.”
“Both statements, O king, are correct but the first was
made to set forth truthfully and exactly the real nature of
the teaching. The second passage was not spoken for gain,
127.A. ii. 238, Pug. 63.
128.Jà. No. 441.
129.D. L 3; cf. M. i. 140.
130.M. ii. Sta. 92; Sn. v 554
fame, nor in a biased way, nor for the sake of winning over
followers but was spoken with compassion and the know-
ledge that thereby three hundred brahmins would attain to
knowledge of the truth.”
29. Who Deserves Punishment?
“The Blessed One said, ‘Doing no injury to anyone, dwell
full of love and kindness in the world.’
131 Yet he also said,
‘Restrain him who deserves restraint and encourage him
who deserves encouragement.’
132 Now, restraint means the
cutting off of hands and feet, imprisonment and so forth. If
the first statement is correct then the second cannot be
right.”
“O king, to do no injury is a doctrine approved of by
all the Buddhas; the second injunction however was used
figuratively. It means restrain the agitated mind, encourage
the slothful mind; restrain the unwholesome mind, encour-
age the wholesome mind; restrain unwise reflection, en-
courage wise reflection; restrain wrong practice, encourage
right practice; the ignoble should be restrained, the noble
encouraged; the thief [the evil-minded monk who desires
gain, praise and fame] should be restrained and the honest
man [the sincere monk who desires only to destroy defile-
ments] should be encouraged.”
“Now you have come round to the sense in my question.
For how, venerable Nàgasena, is a robber to be subdued?”
131.Jà. No. 451 (Jà. iv. 71) v 9.
132.Jà. No. 521 (Jà. v. 116) v 19
“Thus, great king: if deserving rebuke let him be
rebuked, if deserving a fine let him be fined, if deserving
banishment let him be banished, if deserving death let him
be put to death.”
“Is then, Nàgasena, the execution of robbers part of
the doctrine laid down by the Tathàgata?”
“Certainly not, O king. Whosoever may be put to
death, he does not suffer execution by reason of the opinion
put forward by the Tathàgata. He suffers by reason of what
he himself has done.”133
30. Dismissal of the order
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘I harbour not anger nor
sulkiness’.
134 Yet he dismissed Sàriputta and Moggallàna
with their disciples.
135 Was it then not in anger that he did
this?”
“The Tathàgata did dismiss the monks but not in
anger. It was due to what they themselves had done that
they were dismissed. As the great earth does not feel anger
if a man stumbles and falls. It is the man’s own fault that
he stumbles. So too the Blessed One does not feel ill-will of
any kind. He sent them away knowing, ‘It will be for their
good, happiness, purification and deliverance from
suffering’.”
133.Capital punishment was the norm and severe corporal punishment was also practised
in the Buddha’s time.
134.Sn. v 19.
135.M. ii. Sta. 67.
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas II
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas II
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 9
The Solving of Dilemmas (II)
11. The Minor and Lesser Precepts
“It has been said by the Blessed One, ‘It is
from higher knowledge, O monks, that I
teach Dhamma.’
90 Yet he also said, ‘When I
am gone, ânanda, let the Order, if it should
so wish, abolish the minor and lesser precepts.’
91
Were then
those precepts laid down in error and without due cause?”
“When the Blessed One, O king, said, ‘Let the Order
abolish the lesser and minor precepts’, it was said in order
to test the monks. As a king on his death bed would test his
sons saying, ‘The outer regions of my kingdom will be in
danger of falling after my death.’ Then, would his sons on
the death of their father give up those outlying districts?”
“No indeed, venerable sir. Kings are grasping. The
princes might, in their lust for power, subjugate an area
twice what they already had but they would never willing-
ly give up what they possessed.”
“Just so, O king, the sons of the Buddha, in their
enthusiasm for the Dhamma might keep even more than
one hundred and fifty92
regulations but they would never
give up any that had been laid down.”
90.A. i. 276 cf. M. ii. 9.
91.D. ii. 154; Vin. ii. 287.
92.Excluding the 75 minor training rules there are 152 precepts.
“Venerable Nàgasena, when the Blessed One referred
to the ‘Minor and Lesser Precepts’ people might be in doubt
as to which these were.”
“Those acts of wrong-doing93 are the lesser precepts,
and wrong speech94 refers to the minor precepts. The elders
who convened the First Buddhist Council were also not
unanimous about this matter.”
12. The Esoteric Teaching
“The Blessed One said to ânanda, ‘In respect of the
Dhamma the Tathàgata does not have the closed fist of a
teacher who holds something back.’
95
Yet when he was
questioned by Màlurikyàputta he made no answer.
96 Was
it because of ignorance that he did not reply or did he wish
to conceal something?”
“O king, it was not because of ignorance, nor for the
sake of concealing anything that he did not answer. A ques-
tion may be answered in one of four ways: directly, with an
analysis, with a counter-question or by setting it aside.
“And what sort of question should be answered
directly?
‘Is matter impermanent? Is feeling impermanent? Is per-
ception impermanent?’ These should be answered directly.
“And what should be answered with an analysis?
‘Is what is impermanent, matter?’
93. Dukkaña: Transgressions against the 75 training rules and other minor regulations.
94. Dubbhàsita: Frivolous or sarcastic speech that does not amount to lying or abuse of a
monk.
95.D. ii. 100; S. v. 153.
96.M. ii. Sta. 63.
“And what should be answered with a counter-
question?
‘Can the eye perceive all things?’
“And which should be set aside?
‘Is the world eternal? Is the world not eternal? Does
the Tathàgata exist after death? Does he not exist after
death? Is the soul the same as the body? Is the body one
thing and the soul another?’ It was to this sort of question
that the Blessed One gave no reply to Màlurikyàputta.
There was no reason to answer it. The Buddhas do not
speak without reason.”
13. The Fear of Death
“The Blessed One said, ‘All tremble at punishment, all are
afraid of death.’
97 Yet he also said, ‘The arahant has passed
beyond all fear.’
98 How is it then? Do the arahants tremble
at the fear of death? Or are the beings in hell afraid of death
by which they may gain release from torment?”
“O king, it was not with regard to arahants that the
Blessed One said, ‘All tremble at punishment, all are afraid
of death.’ An arahant is an exception to that statement for all
cause of fear has been removed by him. Suppose, O king, a
king had four chief ministers who were faithful and trust-
worthy; would they be afraid if the king were to issue an
order saying, ‘All the people in my realm must pay a tax’?”
“No, Nàgasena, they would not be afraid because the
tax does not apply to them, they are beyond taxation.”
97.Dhp. v 129.
98. cf. A. ii. 172
“Just so, O king, the statement, ‘All tremble at punish-
ment, all fear death’, does not apply to arahants because
they are beyond the fear of death. There are these five ways,
O king, in which the meaning of a statement should be
established: by comparison with the text quoted; by ‘taste’
i.e. is it in accordance with other texts?; is it in accordance
with the word of the teachers?; having considered his own
opinion, i.e. is it in accordance with my own experience?;
and, fifthly, by a combination of all these methods.”
“Very well, Nàgasena, I accept that arahants are an
exception to that statement, but surely those beings in hell
cannot be afraid of the death by means of which they will
gain release from that torment?”
“Those in hell are afraid of death, O king, for death is
a condition that all those who have not seen the Dhamma
are afraid of. Suppose, O king, a man kept prisoner in a dun-
geon were to be sent for by the king who wished to set him
free. Wouldn’t that prisoner be afraid of meeting the king?”
“Yes he would.”
“Just so, O king, those beings in hell are afraid of death
even though they will attain release from their torment.”
14. Protection from Death
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘Not in the sky, not in the
ocean’s midst, not in the most secluded mountain cleft, not
in the whole wide world is found the spot where
remaining one could escape the snare of death.’
99 Yet, on
99.Dhp. v 128.
the other hand, the protection verses (paritta) were
prescribed by the Buddha for the protection of those in
danger. If there is no escape from death then the Paritta
ceremony is useless.”
“Paritta verses, O king, are meant for those who have
some portion of their life remaining. There is no ceremony
or artificial means for prolonging the life of one whose life-
span has come to an end.”
“But, Nàgasena, if he who has a term of life yet to run
will live, and he who has none will die, then medicine and
Paritta are alike useless.”
“Have you ever seen or heard of a case of a disease
being cured by medicine?”
“Yes, hundreds of times.”
“Then your statement as to the ineffectiveness of
Paritta and medicine must be wrong.”
“Venerable Nàgasena, is Paritta a protection to every-
body?”
“Only to some, not to all. There are three reasons for
the failure of Paritta: the obstruction due to past kamma, that
caused by present defilements, and the obstruction caused
by lack of confidence. That which is a protection to beings
loses its power through their own blemishes.”
15. The Power of Màra
“Although you say that the Tathàgata was in constant
receipt of alms100 yet when he entered the Pa¤casàla
100. cf. A. ii. 87. “I, monks, enjoy a plentiful supply of alms when invited.”
village he received nothing due to the intervention of
Màra.
101 Is the power of Màra greater than the power of the
Buddha or the power of demerit greater than the power of
merit?”
“Great king, although what you said is true it is not
enough reason to prove your assertion. Consider a gate-
keeper at a royal palace. He might prevent someone from
bringing a present for the king out of jealousy yet the king
would not thereby be less powerful than the gatekeeper.
There are four modes of obstructing a gift: to a gift not in-
tended for any particular person, to one set aside for some-
one, to one being prepared for someone and to the enjoy-
ment of a gift given to someone. In the case you mentioned
the gift was not intended specifically for the Blessed One: if
it had been no one could have obstructed it.
“There are four things, O king, connected with the
Tathàgatas, to which no one can do any harm: the alms
intended for him, the halo that surrounds him for one
fathom, his omniscience and his life. These things are free
from defect and unassailable by other beings and cannot be
harmed. When Màra possessed the householders of Pa¤ca-
sàla village it was as when robbers, by hiding in inaccess-
ible places, beset the highways. However, if the king caught
sight of them do you think they would be safe?”
“No, sir, he might have them cut to pieces.”
“Just so, O king, if Màra had raised any obstruction to
alms intended for the Blessed One his head would have
split into a thousand pieces.”
101.S. i. 113 f; DhA. iii. 257. Màra, as well as being the personification of evil, is a being who
was an antagonist of the Buddha and appeared several times during his life to taunt him.
16. Knowledge of Wrong Doing
“This was said by the Blessed One, ‘Whoever ignorantly
deprives a living being of life accumulates great demerit.’
102
Yet in the training rule for monks concerning killing living
beings he says, ‘There is no offence if he does not know.’
103
How can both of these statements be true?”
“There are offences where there is no escape for one
who does not know and there are offences where there is an
escape.
104 It was in regard to this second kind of offence that
the Blessed One said there is no offence if he does not know.”
17. The Buddha Is Not Possessive
“The Blessed One said, ‘The Tathàgata does not think that
he should lead the Order or that it is dependent upon
him.’
105 Yet regarding Metteyya Buddha he said, ‘He will
be the leader of an Order of several thousands as I am now
the leader of an Order of several hundreds’.”106
“O king, the sense in one passage is inclusive, in the
other it is not. It is not the Tathàgata who seeks after a fol-
lowing but the followers who seek after him. It is merely a
102.The quotation given is taken out of context. There is no demerit at all in killing living
beings unknowingly (as a blind man walking on ants). Hence I have said ‘ignorantly’
meaning he kills not knowing it is an unwholesome act which has evil results.
See,Question 8, Chapter Seven.
103. Vin. iii. 78; iv. 49, etc.
104.Compare, for example, Pàcittiya 51; in which taking intoxicants is an offence even if one
does not know; to Pàcittiya 62 where using water with living organisms in it is an offence
only if he knows.
105.D. ii. 100; cf. M. i. 459 (MLS. ii. 132).
106.D. iii. 76
common opinion that ‘This is mine’, it is not an ultimate
truth. Affection is a frame of mind put away by the Tathà-
gata; he has put away possessiveness, he is free from the
delusion ‘This is mine’, he lives only to help others. Just as
a mighty rain cloud, O king, pours out its rain, and gives
sustenance to grass and trees, to cattle and to men, and all
living things depend on it, but the cloud has no feelings of
longing with the idea that ‘These are mine’ — so too, the
Tathàgata instructs all beings in good qualities and main-
tains them in goodness, and all beings depend on him but
he has no concept of possession because he has abandoned
all wrong views of self.”
18. The Unity of the Order
“You say that the Order of the Tathàgata could never be
broken up.
107 Yet Devadatta was able to lead away five
hundred monks from the Blessed One”.
108
“It was due to the power of the schismatic that the
schism occurred, for even a mother can be disunited from
her son where there is one to make a rift. However, it was
said in a special sense that the Order of the Tathàgata could
not be broken up. It is an unheard of thing that his follow-
ing could be disunited by anything done or any unkind
word, wrong action, or injustice whatsoever of the Tathà-
gata himself. In that sense his following is invulnerable.”
107.D. iii. 172.
108.Vin. ii. 198
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 9
The Solving of Dilemmas (II)
11. The Minor and Lesser Precepts
“It has been said by the Blessed One, ‘It is
from higher knowledge, O monks, that I
teach Dhamma.’
90 Yet he also said, ‘When I
am gone, ânanda, let the Order, if it should
so wish, abolish the minor and lesser precepts.’
91
Were then
those precepts laid down in error and without due cause?”
“When the Blessed One, O king, said, ‘Let the Order
abolish the lesser and minor precepts’, it was said in order
to test the monks. As a king on his death bed would test his
sons saying, ‘The outer regions of my kingdom will be in
danger of falling after my death.’ Then, would his sons on
the death of their father give up those outlying districts?”
“No indeed, venerable sir. Kings are grasping. The
princes might, in their lust for power, subjugate an area
twice what they already had but they would never willing-
ly give up what they possessed.”
“Just so, O king, the sons of the Buddha, in their
enthusiasm for the Dhamma might keep even more than
one hundred and fifty92
regulations but they would never
give up any that had been laid down.”
90.A. i. 276 cf. M. ii. 9.
91.D. ii. 154; Vin. ii. 287.
92.Excluding the 75 minor training rules there are 152 precepts.
“Venerable Nàgasena, when the Blessed One referred
to the ‘Minor and Lesser Precepts’ people might be in doubt
as to which these were.”
“Those acts of wrong-doing93 are the lesser precepts,
and wrong speech94 refers to the minor precepts. The elders
who convened the First Buddhist Council were also not
unanimous about this matter.”
12. The Esoteric Teaching
“The Blessed One said to ânanda, ‘In respect of the
Dhamma the Tathàgata does not have the closed fist of a
teacher who holds something back.’
95
Yet when he was
questioned by Màlurikyàputta he made no answer.
96 Was
it because of ignorance that he did not reply or did he wish
to conceal something?”
“O king, it was not because of ignorance, nor for the
sake of concealing anything that he did not answer. A ques-
tion may be answered in one of four ways: directly, with an
analysis, with a counter-question or by setting it aside.
“And what sort of question should be answered
directly?
‘Is matter impermanent? Is feeling impermanent? Is per-
ception impermanent?’ These should be answered directly.
“And what should be answered with an analysis?
‘Is what is impermanent, matter?’
93. Dukkaña: Transgressions against the 75 training rules and other minor regulations.
94. Dubbhàsita: Frivolous or sarcastic speech that does not amount to lying or abuse of a
monk.
95.D. ii. 100; S. v. 153.
96.M. ii. Sta. 63.
“And what should be answered with a counter-
question?
‘Can the eye perceive all things?’
“And which should be set aside?
‘Is the world eternal? Is the world not eternal? Does
the Tathàgata exist after death? Does he not exist after
death? Is the soul the same as the body? Is the body one
thing and the soul another?’ It was to this sort of question
that the Blessed One gave no reply to Màlurikyàputta.
There was no reason to answer it. The Buddhas do not
speak without reason.”
13. The Fear of Death
“The Blessed One said, ‘All tremble at punishment, all are
afraid of death.’
97 Yet he also said, ‘The arahant has passed
beyond all fear.’
98 How is it then? Do the arahants tremble
at the fear of death? Or are the beings in hell afraid of death
by which they may gain release from torment?”
“O king, it was not with regard to arahants that the
Blessed One said, ‘All tremble at punishment, all are afraid
of death.’ An arahant is an exception to that statement for all
cause of fear has been removed by him. Suppose, O king, a
king had four chief ministers who were faithful and trust-
worthy; would they be afraid if the king were to issue an
order saying, ‘All the people in my realm must pay a tax’?”
“No, Nàgasena, they would not be afraid because the
tax does not apply to them, they are beyond taxation.”
97.Dhp. v 129.
98. cf. A. ii. 172
“Just so, O king, the statement, ‘All tremble at punish-
ment, all fear death’, does not apply to arahants because
they are beyond the fear of death. There are these five ways,
O king, in which the meaning of a statement should be
established: by comparison with the text quoted; by ‘taste’
i.e. is it in accordance with other texts?; is it in accordance
with the word of the teachers?; having considered his own
opinion, i.e. is it in accordance with my own experience?;
and, fifthly, by a combination of all these methods.”
“Very well, Nàgasena, I accept that arahants are an
exception to that statement, but surely those beings in hell
cannot be afraid of the death by means of which they will
gain release from that torment?”
“Those in hell are afraid of death, O king, for death is
a condition that all those who have not seen the Dhamma
are afraid of. Suppose, O king, a man kept prisoner in a dun-
geon were to be sent for by the king who wished to set him
free. Wouldn’t that prisoner be afraid of meeting the king?”
“Yes he would.”
“Just so, O king, those beings in hell are afraid of death
even though they will attain release from their torment.”
14. Protection from Death
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘Not in the sky, not in the
ocean’s midst, not in the most secluded mountain cleft, not
in the whole wide world is found the spot where
remaining one could escape the snare of death.’
99 Yet, on
99.Dhp. v 128.
the other hand, the protection verses (paritta) were
prescribed by the Buddha for the protection of those in
danger. If there is no escape from death then the Paritta
ceremony is useless.”
“Paritta verses, O king, are meant for those who have
some portion of their life remaining. There is no ceremony
or artificial means for prolonging the life of one whose life-
span has come to an end.”
“But, Nàgasena, if he who has a term of life yet to run
will live, and he who has none will die, then medicine and
Paritta are alike useless.”
“Have you ever seen or heard of a case of a disease
being cured by medicine?”
“Yes, hundreds of times.”
“Then your statement as to the ineffectiveness of
Paritta and medicine must be wrong.”
“Venerable Nàgasena, is Paritta a protection to every-
body?”
“Only to some, not to all. There are three reasons for
the failure of Paritta: the obstruction due to past kamma, that
caused by present defilements, and the obstruction caused
by lack of confidence. That which is a protection to beings
loses its power through their own blemishes.”
15. The Power of Màra
“Although you say that the Tathàgata was in constant
receipt of alms100 yet when he entered the Pa¤casàla
100. cf. A. ii. 87. “I, monks, enjoy a plentiful supply of alms when invited.”
village he received nothing due to the intervention of
Màra.
101 Is the power of Màra greater than the power of the
Buddha or the power of demerit greater than the power of
merit?”
“Great king, although what you said is true it is not
enough reason to prove your assertion. Consider a gate-
keeper at a royal palace. He might prevent someone from
bringing a present for the king out of jealousy yet the king
would not thereby be less powerful than the gatekeeper.
There are four modes of obstructing a gift: to a gift not in-
tended for any particular person, to one set aside for some-
one, to one being prepared for someone and to the enjoy-
ment of a gift given to someone. In the case you mentioned
the gift was not intended specifically for the Blessed One: if
it had been no one could have obstructed it.
“There are four things, O king, connected with the
Tathàgatas, to which no one can do any harm: the alms
intended for him, the halo that surrounds him for one
fathom, his omniscience and his life. These things are free
from defect and unassailable by other beings and cannot be
harmed. When Màra possessed the householders of Pa¤ca-
sàla village it was as when robbers, by hiding in inaccess-
ible places, beset the highways. However, if the king caught
sight of them do you think they would be safe?”
“No, sir, he might have them cut to pieces.”
“Just so, O king, if Màra had raised any obstruction to
alms intended for the Blessed One his head would have
split into a thousand pieces.”
101.S. i. 113 f; DhA. iii. 257. Màra, as well as being the personification of evil, is a being who
was an antagonist of the Buddha and appeared several times during his life to taunt him.
16. Knowledge of Wrong Doing
“This was said by the Blessed One, ‘Whoever ignorantly
deprives a living being of life accumulates great demerit.’
102
Yet in the training rule for monks concerning killing living
beings he says, ‘There is no offence if he does not know.’
103
How can both of these statements be true?”
“There are offences where there is no escape for one
who does not know and there are offences where there is an
escape.
104 It was in regard to this second kind of offence that
the Blessed One said there is no offence if he does not know.”
17. The Buddha Is Not Possessive
“The Blessed One said, ‘The Tathàgata does not think that
he should lead the Order or that it is dependent upon
him.’
105 Yet regarding Metteyya Buddha he said, ‘He will
be the leader of an Order of several thousands as I am now
the leader of an Order of several hundreds’.”106
“O king, the sense in one passage is inclusive, in the
other it is not. It is not the Tathàgata who seeks after a fol-
lowing but the followers who seek after him. It is merely a
102.The quotation given is taken out of context. There is no demerit at all in killing living
beings unknowingly (as a blind man walking on ants). Hence I have said ‘ignorantly’
meaning he kills not knowing it is an unwholesome act which has evil results.
See,Question 8, Chapter Seven.
103. Vin. iii. 78; iv. 49, etc.
104.Compare, for example, Pàcittiya 51; in which taking intoxicants is an offence even if one
does not know; to Pàcittiya 62 where using water with living organisms in it is an offence
only if he knows.
105.D. ii. 100; cf. M. i. 459 (MLS. ii. 132).
106.D. iii. 76
common opinion that ‘This is mine’, it is not an ultimate
truth. Affection is a frame of mind put away by the Tathà-
gata; he has put away possessiveness, he is free from the
delusion ‘This is mine’, he lives only to help others. Just as
a mighty rain cloud, O king, pours out its rain, and gives
sustenance to grass and trees, to cattle and to men, and all
living things depend on it, but the cloud has no feelings of
longing with the idea that ‘These are mine’ — so too, the
Tathàgata instructs all beings in good qualities and main-
tains them in goodness, and all beings depend on him but
he has no concept of possession because he has abandoned
all wrong views of self.”
18. The Unity of the Order
“You say that the Order of the Tathàgata could never be
broken up.
107 Yet Devadatta was able to lead away five
hundred monks from the Blessed One”.
108
“It was due to the power of the schismatic that the
schism occurred, for even a mother can be disunited from
her son where there is one to make a rift. However, it was
said in a special sense that the Order of the Tathàgata could
not be broken up. It is an unheard of thing that his follow-
ing could be disunited by anything done or any unkind
word, wrong action, or injustice whatsoever of the Tathà-
gata himself. In that sense his following is invulnerable.”
107.D. iii. 172.
108.Vin. ii. 198
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas I
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Solving of Dilemmas I
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 8
The Solving of Dilemmas (I)
After pondering the whole night on the
discussions he had had with Nàgasena, the
king took upon himself eight vows: “For
these seven days I will decide no case of
law, I will harbour no thought of desire,
hatred or delusion. Towards all servants and dependants I
shall be humble. I shall watch carefully over every bodily
act and my six senses. I shall fill my mind with loving-
kindness for all beings.”
Then he desired to talk with Nàgasena alone saying,
“There are eight places to be avoided by him who wants to
discuss deeply: uneven ground where the matter consid-
ered becomes scattered, verbose, diffuse and comes to
nothing; unsafe places where the mind is disturbed by fear
and so does not perceive the meaning clearly; windy places
where the voice is indistinct; in secluded places there may
be eavesdroppers; in sacred places the subject of discussion
may be diverted to the serious surroundings; on a road it
may become banal; on a bridge it may become unsteady
and wavering; and at a public bathing place it would be-
come a matter of common talk.
“Again there are eight kinds of people, Nàgasena,
who are apt to spoil the discussion; the lustful, the angry or
deluded man, the proud, the covetous, the sluggard, the
man of one idea, and the poor fool — these eight are the
spoilers of high argument.
“There are eight causes, Nàgasena, of the develop-
ment and maturing of intelligence: the advance of years,
the growth of reputation, frequent questioning, association
with a spiritual guide, one’s own reasoning, discussion,
association with the virtuous and dwelling in a suitable
place. This spot is free from objections to talking matters
over and I am a model pupil; I am discreet and my insight
is mature.
“These, Nàgasena, are the twenty-five duties of a
teacher towards his worthy pupil: he must always protect
his pupil, let him know what to cultivate and what to avoid,
what he should be earnest about and what neglect. He
should instruct him as to sleep, keeping in health, what
food to accept or reject, teach him moderation in food, and
share with him what he gets in his own almsbowl. He
should encourage him when he is discouraged and advise
him as to suitable company, villages and monasteries to
frequent. He should never indulge in joking or foolish talk
with him. Having seen any defect he should be patient with
him. He should be diligent, one who fulfils the precepts,
worthy of respect and open-hearted. He should regard him
as a son, strive to bring him forward, make him strong in
knowledge, love him, never desert him in need, never
neglect any duty and help him back onto the right path
when he stumbles.”
“O king, there are these ten qualities of a lay disciple.
He should share the joy and sorrow of the Order, take the
Dhamma as his guide, delight in giving as far as he is able and
should strive to revive the religion if it is in decay. He holds
right views and, being one free from the excitement of
celebrating festivals,
57 he does not run after another teacher
even for the sake of his life. He keeps watch over his thoughts,
words and deeds, delights in harmony and is unbiased. As he
is no hypocrite he takes refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and
Saïgha. All of these qualities are present in you, hence it is
proper and becoming in you that, seeing the decay in the
religion of the conqueror, you desire its prosperity. I give you
leave to ask me whatever you wish.”
1. On Honours Paid to the Buddha
Then, when leave had been granted, Milinda paid homage
and, with his hands joined in reverence, began by asking:
“Venerable Nàgasena, the leaders of other sects say, ‘If
the Buddha agrees to honour and gifts then he is not entirely
free from the world. Therefore any service rendered to him
becomes empty and vain.’ Tear apart this tangle of wrong-
views, solve this dilemma and give insight to the future
sons of the Buddha with which to refute their adversaries.”
“The Blessed One, O king, is entirely set free and has
no attachment to either gifts or honour paid to him.”
“Nàgasena, a son may speak in praise of his father, or
a father in praise of his son but that is not sufficient grounds
to silence the critics.”
57. cf. A. iii. 206. One of five qualities which lead to one being an outcaste. He is not one who
believes in the performance of rituals, or in omens; but he believes in deeds, so he
celebrates festivals by observing the eight precepts, listening to the Dhamma and
practising meditation
“Even though the Blessed One has now passed away
and cannot be said to accept gifts and honours paid to him
yet deeds done in his name are of value and bear great fruit.
As a great and mighty wind that blew, even so the Blessed
One has blown over the world with his love, so soothing, so
gentle and so pure. Like men tormented by heat and fever
are soothed by a cool wind, so, too, beings tormented by the
heat of desire, hatred and delusion are pacified by the sub-
lime teaching of the Blessed One. Although, great king, the
Blessed One has entirely passed away, he has left behind
his doctrine, his discipline and his precious relics whose
value derives from his virtue, concentration, wisdom and
freedom. Beings afflicted by the sorrows of becoming can
still receive the benefits of these things, as those who have
fans can still make a breeze although the wind has subsid-
ed. This was foreseen by the Blessed One when he said, ‘It
may be, ânanda, that some of you may think, “The word of
the master is ended; we have no teacher any more”, but you
should not regard it so. The Dhamma that has been
preached by me and the rules that I have laid down, let
them be your teachers when I am gone’.
58
“Hear another reason, O king. Did you ever hear that
the ogre Nandaka, who dared to strike the Elder Sàriputta,
was swallowed up by the earth?”
“Yes, venerable sir, that is common knowledge.”
“Did Venerable Sàriputta acquiesce in that?”
“Venerable Sàriputta would never agree to any pain
being inflicted on a fellow creature, for he had rooted out
all anger.”
58.D. ii. 154.
“Then, if Sàriputta did not consent to it, why was
Nandaka swallowed up by the earth?”
“It was because of the power of his evil deed.”
“How many, O king, are those who have been
swallowed up by the earth?”
“There are five, venerable sir; Ci¤ca the Brahmin
woman,
59 Suppabuddha the Sàkyan,
60 Devadatta,
61 Nandaka
the ogre62 and Nanda the Brahman63 — these have been
swallowed up by the earth.”
“And whom, O king, had they wronged?”
“The Blessed One or his disciples.”
“Therefore, O king, an act done to the Tathàgata, not-
withstanding his having passed away, is nevertheless of
value and bears fruit.”
“Well has this deep question been explained by you,
Nàgasena. You have disclosed that which was hidden,
undone the knot, cleared the thicket, refuted the false view
and the sectarians have been shrouded in darkness by you,
the best of all the leaders of schools.”
2. The Omniscience of the Buddha
“Nàgasena, was the Buddha omniscient?”
“Yes, O king, but the insight of knowledge was not
59.DhA. iii. 178, Commentary on Dhp. v 176. She was persuaded by the Buddha’s
opponents to accuse him of being her lover.
60.DhA. iii. 44 f, Commentary on Dhp. v 128. He was the father of Yasodharà and
Devadatta and while drunk stood in the road obstructing the Buddha.
61.DhA. i. 147 f, Commentary on Dhp. v 17. He attempted to kill the Buddha.
62.Vism. 380. He was the yakkha who struck Sàriputta on the head.
63.DhA. ii. 49, Commentary on Dhp. 69. He was a youth who raped the beautiful nun
Upalavaõõa, who was an arahant.
always with him. It depended on reflection.”
“Then, Nàgasena, the Buddha could not have been
omniscient if his knowledge was reached through re-
flection.”
“I will explain further. There are seven classes of men-
tal ability. Firstly, there are ordinary people (puthujjana)
who are full of desire, hatred and delusion; untrained in
their action, speech and thought; their thinking acts slowly
and with difficulty.
“Secondly, there are stream-winners who have
attained to right view and rightly grasped the Master’s
teaching. Their thinking powers are quick and function
easily as far as the first three fetters are concerned but
beyond that they function slowly and with difficulty.
“Thirdly, there are once-returners in whom desire
and hatred are reduced. Their thinking powers work
quickly and easily as far as the five lower fetters are
concerned but slowly and with difficulty beyond that.
“Fourthly, there are non-returners in whom desire
and hatred are eliminated. Their thinking powers work
quickly and easily as far as the ten fetters but slowly and
with difficulty beyond that.
“Fifthly, there are the arahants in whom the floods of
sensual desire, desire for rebirth, personality-belief and
ignorance have ceased, who have lived the holy life and
reached their final goal. Their thinking powers work
quickly as far as the range of a disciple is concerned but
slowly and with difficulty beyond that.
64
64.There is no lack in their wisdom, but as regards knowledge of former lives or
knowledge of the spiritual faculties of beings there is
“Sixthly, there are Solitary Buddhas who are depend-
ent on themselves alone, needing no teacher. Their thinking
powers work quickly as far as their own range is concerned
but as regards that which is exclusively the range of the
Perfectly Enlightened Ones their thinking works slowly
and with difficulty. Like a man who would readily cross a
small river that was on his own property but would hesi-
tate to cross the great ocean.
“Lastly, there are Perfectly Enlightened Buddhas who
have all knowledge, are endowed with the ten powers, the
four modes of fearlessness, and the eighteen characteristics
of a Buddha. Their thinking powers are quickly exercised
without sluggishness in any area of knowledge. As a sharp
bolt on a powerful crossbow would easily pass through a
thin cloth, just so their knowledge is unimpeded and easily
outclasses the other six. It is because their minds are so clear
and agile that the Buddhas can display the Twin Miracle.
65
From that we may only guess how clear and active their
powers are. For all these wonders there is no reason other
than reflection that can be asserted.”
“Nevertheless, Nàgasena, reflection is carried out for
the purpose of seeking out what was not already clear
before the reflection began.”
“A rich man would not be called poor just because
there was no food prepared when a traveller arrived at his
house unexpectedly; nor would a tree be called barren
when it was fully laden just because no fruit had yet fallen
65.A feat of supernormal power where fountains of fire and water issue simultaneously
from each pore of his body
on the ground. So too the Buddha is indeed omniscient
although his knowledge is gained through reflection.”
3. Devadatta’s Ordination
“If the Buddha was both omniscient and full of compassion
why did he admit Devadatta to the Order, since by causing
a schism66 [which only a bhikkhu can do] he was thereby
consigned to hell for an aeon?67 If the Buddha did not know
what Devadatta would do then he was not omniscient and
if he knew then he was not compassionate.”
“The Blessed One was both omniscient and full of
compassion. It was because he foresaw that Devadatta’s
suffering would become limited that he admitted him to
the Order. As a man of influence might have a criminal’s
sentence mitigated from execution to the cutting off of
hands and feet but would not thereby be responsible for the
pain and suffering that that man had to undergo, or as a
clever physician would make a critical disease lighter by
giving a powerful purgative, so did the Buddha reduce the
future suffering of Devadatta by admitting him to the
Order. After he has suffered for the rest of the aeon in
purgatory Devadatta will be released and become a
Solitary Buddha by the name of Aññhissara.”
“Great is the gift bestowed, Nàgasena, by the Blessed
One on Devadatta. The Tathàgata pointed out the road to
him when he was lost in the jungle, he gave him a firm
66.Schism occurs when two groups of four or more monks living within the same
boundary recite the Pàtimokkha separately.
67. Kappa, or Kalpa, see footnote to Dilemma 10.
foothold when he was falling down a precipice. Yet the
reason and meaning for this could only have been pointed
out by one as wise as you!”
4. Causes of Earthquakes
“The Buddha said, Nàgasena, that there are eight causes of
a great earthquake.
68 Yet we find that there is a ninth cause
also mentioned in the texts. When the Bodhisatta Ves-
santara fulfilled the perfection of generosity by giving
away his wife and children as servants then, too, did the
great earth shake. If the former statement of the Buddha is
true then the latter is false.”
“Both statements, O king, are correct. The gift of Ves-
santara was not mentioned as a ninth cause of a great earth-
quake because it is an extremely rare occurrence. Just as the
dried up creek that does not usually hold water is not called
a river, but in times of exceptional rainfall it becomes a
river, so too the largesse of Vessantara was an isolated and
extraordinary occurrence, and for that reason one distinct
from the eight usual causes of a great earthquake.
“Have you ever heard, O king, in the history of our
religion of any act of devotion that gave its result in this
very life?”
“Yes, venerable Nàgasena, there are seven such cases:
Sumana the garland maker,
69
Ekasàñaka the brahman,
70
68.D. ii. 107; A iv. 312.
69.DhA. ii. 40f, Dhp. v 68.
70.DhA. iii. 1, Dhp. v 116.
Puõõa the farm worker,
71 Mallikà the queen,
72 the queen
known as the mother of Gopàla,
73 Suppiyà the devoted
woman74 and Puõõà the slave-girl.”75
“But have you ever heard, O king, of the earth shak-
ing even once or twice when a gift had been given?”
“No, venerable sir, I have never heard of that.”
“I too, O king, have never heard of such a thing,
though I have been devoted to study and ready to learn,
except for this case of the splendid gift of Vessantara. It is
by no common effort, O king, that the great earth is moved.
It is when overburdened by the weight of righteousness,
overpowered by the burden of the goodness of acts that
testify to absolute purity; that, unable to support it, the
broad earth quakes and trembles. When Vessantara gave
his gift, O king, he was giving things away not for the sake
of a glorious rebirth, nor for future wealth, nor to receive
gifts in return, nor for flattery, nor for any other personal
gain, but only for the sake of supreme wisdom.”
5. Asseveration of Truth
“King Sãvi gave his eyes to someone who begged for them
and new eyes arose in their place.
76 How is this possible?”
71.DhA. iii. 302f, Dhp. v 223.
72.Jà. iii. 405, Dhp. v 177.
73.AA. i. 207f.
74.Vin. i. 217-8. Having promised meat broth to a monk she was unable to buy any meat
so she cut a piece from her own thigh prepared broth and offered it to the monk. When
the Buddha met her the wound healed miraculously. See also Dilemma 73.
75.DhA. iii. 321, Dhp. v 226.
76.Jà. No. 499.
“It was by the power of the truth that it happened. As
when mystics recite the truth they can make the rain fall,
drive back fire or neutralize poison.
“When Asoka the righteous ruler stood one day among
the townsfolk of Pàñaliputta he said to his ministers; ‘Is there
anyone who could make this great Ganges flow backwards
and upstream?’ Then a certain courtesan, named Bindumatã,
was in the crowd and she performed an act of truth. At that
very moment the mighty Ganges, roaring and raging, rolled
back upstream in sight of everyone. The king, awestruck,
sought out the woman who was the cause of this and asked
her, ‘What is the act of truth by which you did this?’ She re-
plied, ‘Whoever pays me, whether he is a brahmin, a noble, a
tradesman or a servant, I regard them all alike. Free from bias
I do service to him who has paid me. This is the basis of the
act of truth77 by which I turned the Ganges back.’
“There is no ordinary cause for those things to
happen but the power of truth is itself the cause. And there
is no reason for the realisation of the Four Noble Truths
other than the power of truth.”
6. The Dilemma Regarding Conception
“The Blessed One said, Nàgasena, that there is conception
in a womb with the coincidence of three causes; coitus of
the parents,
78 the mother’s season and a being to be born.
79
77.There are many examples in the Jàtaka, e.g. Jà. i. 214, 215. It is not necessary for the truth
averred to be commendable. cf. Jà. iv. 31-33.
78. See Ja. Nos. 497, 523, 526; and Vin. iii. 205f for examples of conception without sexual
intercourse.
79.M. i. 265, M. ii. 157.
However, he also said that when the ascetic Dukàla
touched the navel of the ascetic woman Pàrikà with his
thumb the boy Sàma was conceived.
80 If the first statement
is true then the latter must be false.”
“Both statements are true, O king, but you should not
think that there was any transgression in the latter case.
Sakka, the king of the gods, having seen that those virtuous
ascetics would become blind, entreated them to have a son.
However, they would not consent to intercourse even to
save their lives, so Sakka intervened by instructing Dukàla
and thus Sàma was conceived.”
7. The Duration of the Religion
“After the ordination of women, the Blessed One said that
the pure doctrine would only last for five hundred years.
81
However, to Subaddha he said, ‘So long as the brethren live
the perfect holy life then this world will not be bereft of
arahants.’ These statements are contradictory.”
“O king, the Blessed One did make both statements,
but they are different in the spirit and in the letter. One
deals with the duration of the pure doctrine whereas the
other deals with the practice of the religious life, two things
widely distinct. In saying five hundred years he was fixing
a limit to religion but in speaking to Subaddha he was de-
claring in what religion consisted. If the sons of the Buddha
continue to exert themselves in the five factors of striving,
82
80.Jà. No. 540.
81.The Sri Lankan text gives an alternative reading of 5,000 years.
82. Padhàna — Confidence, good health, honesty, energy and wisdom
have a sincere desire for the three trainings,
83 perfecting
themselves in conduct and virtue; then the glorious teach-
ing of the Conqueror will long endure and stand more and
more steadfast as the years roll on. The teaching of the Mas-
ter, O king, has its root in practice, practice is its essence,
and it stands as long as practice does not decline.
There are three modes of disappearance of a teaching.
The decline of the attainment to a clear insight into it, of
practice in accordance with it, and decline in the outward
form of it. When the intellectual grasp ceases then even the
man who conducts himself rightly has no clear understand-
ing of it. By the decline of practice, promulgation of the
Vinaya rules ceases and only the outward form of the reli-
gion remains. When the outward form ceases then the suc-
cession of the tradition is cut off.”
8. Purity of the Buddha
“If the Tathàgata destroyed all unwholesomeness in him-
self when he gained omniscience why did he get hurt by a
splinter of rock that was thrown by Devadatta? If he did
get hurt then he cannot have been free from all evil, for
there is no feeling without kamma. All feeling has its root
in kamma and it is only on account of kamma that feeling
arises.”
“No, great king, not all feeling has its root in kamma.
There are eight causes of the arising of feelings. Excess of
wind, of bile and of phlegm, the mixture of the three bodily
fluids, variations in temperature, stress of circumstances,
83. Sãla, samàdhi, pa¤¤à (Virtue, concentration and wisdom).
external agency and kamma. Whoever says, ‘It is only kam-
ma that oppresses beings’, thereby excludes the other seven
reasons and that statement of theirs is wrong.
“When one’s wind is disturbed it happens in one of
ten ways; by cold, by heat, by hunger, by thirst, by over-
eating, by standing too long, by over exertion, by running,
by medical treatment, or as a result of kamma. When the bile
is disturbed it is in one of three ways; by cold, by heat or by
unsuitable food. When the phlegm is disturbed it is in one
of three ways; by cold, by heat or by eating and drinking.
When these three disturbed fluids are mixed it brings about
its own distinctive pain. Then there are pains arising from
variations in temperature, stress of circumstances and by
external agencies. There is also that pain which has kamma
as its cause. So the pain that is due to kamma is much less
than that due to other causes. The ignorant go too far when
they say that everything that is experienced is produced as
the fruit of kamma. Without a Buddha’s insight no one can
ascertain the extent of the action of kamma.
When the Blessed One’s foot was grazed by the splin-
ter of rock the pain was produced only by external agency.
Although the Blessed One never suffered pain that was the
result of his own kamma, or brought about by the stress of
circumstances, he suffered pain from each of the other six
causes.
84
It was said, O king, by the Blessed One, ‘There are cer-
tain pains, Sãvaka, which arise from bilious humours and
you ought to know what they are for, it is a matter of com-
84.This is a controversial point. There are several references to the Buddha experiencing
the result of previous kamma collected at Ap. i. 299ff
mon knowledge. Those ascetics and Brahmans who are of
the opinion and proclaim the view that all feelings that men
experience are due to a previous act, go beyond certainty
and knowledge and therein I say that they are wrong’.”85
9. Perfection of the Buddha
“If the Tathàgata had accomplished everything under the
bodhi tree why did he spend a further three months in
solitude?86 If a man has eaten and is satisfied, what is the
use of further food; if a man is healthy, what is the use of
him taking medicine?”
“O king, solitary meditation has many benefits. All
the Tathàgatas attained to Buddhahood thereby and prac-
tised it in appreciation of its benefits to mankind. There are
twenty-eight benefits of solitude: it guards him, increases
his life expectancy, gives him vigour, conceals his failings,
removes any bad reputation and brings fame, destroys dis-
content and brings satisfaction, banishes fear and endows
him with confidence, removes sloth and fills him with zeal,
takes away desire, hatred and delusion, subdues pride, dis-
rupts discursive thought and makes the mind one-pointed,
softens his mind and makes him light-hearted, makes him
serious, brings him material gain, makes him worthy of
reverence, brings him joy, fills him with delight, shows him
the true nature of all formations, puts an end to rebirth, and
gains for him all the fruits of a life of renunciation. It is be-
85.S. iv. 230f, Moliya Sãvaka Sutta.
86.Between the enlightenment (Vesàkha) and the first sermon (Asàëha) there are only two
months, but there was an occasion when the Buddha spent three months in solitude.
cf.Commentary to Dhp. v 6.
cause the Tathàgata has in mind these manifold benefits
that he follows the practice of seclusion.
“There are altogether four reasons why the Tathà-
gatas devote themselves to solitude. For the sake of dwell-
ing at ease, because of its blameless qualities, because it is
the way to all noble things without exception, and because
it has been praised and exalted by all the Buddhas. It is not
because they have anything left to achieve or anything to
add to what they have already accomplished but only
because of these excellent advantages that they practice
seclusion.”
10. Equanimity of the Buddha
“The Buddha said that, if he wished, he could live for the
remainder of the world-cycle87 but he also said that he
would die at the end of three months.
88 How can both of
these statements be true?”
“Aeon, O king, in that connection means a man’s life-
span and what the Buddha said was in order to exalt the
bases of success (iddhipàda). The Blessed One was entirely
free from desire for any kind of future life and condemned
them all for he said, ‘I find no beauty in the smallest part of
future life, just as even a small quantity of excrement is of
bad smell’.”89
87.D. ii. 103. — A world-cycle (kappa) usually refers to a period of evolution and dissolution
of the world but here it means a man’s average life-span; about 100 years at the time of
the Buddha, now only 75 years. It is said to be reducing by one year every century. An
incalculable aeon (asaïkheyya) is much longer.
88.D. ii. 119.
89. A. i. 34.
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 8
The Solving of Dilemmas (I)
After pondering the whole night on the
discussions he had had with Nàgasena, the
king took upon himself eight vows: “For
these seven days I will decide no case of
law, I will harbour no thought of desire,
hatred or delusion. Towards all servants and dependants I
shall be humble. I shall watch carefully over every bodily
act and my six senses. I shall fill my mind with loving-
kindness for all beings.”
Then he desired to talk with Nàgasena alone saying,
“There are eight places to be avoided by him who wants to
discuss deeply: uneven ground where the matter consid-
ered becomes scattered, verbose, diffuse and comes to
nothing; unsafe places where the mind is disturbed by fear
and so does not perceive the meaning clearly; windy places
where the voice is indistinct; in secluded places there may
be eavesdroppers; in sacred places the subject of discussion
may be diverted to the serious surroundings; on a road it
may become banal; on a bridge it may become unsteady
and wavering; and at a public bathing place it would be-
come a matter of common talk.
“Again there are eight kinds of people, Nàgasena,
who are apt to spoil the discussion; the lustful, the angry or
deluded man, the proud, the covetous, the sluggard, the
man of one idea, and the poor fool — these eight are the
spoilers of high argument.
“There are eight causes, Nàgasena, of the develop-
ment and maturing of intelligence: the advance of years,
the growth of reputation, frequent questioning, association
with a spiritual guide, one’s own reasoning, discussion,
association with the virtuous and dwelling in a suitable
place. This spot is free from objections to talking matters
over and I am a model pupil; I am discreet and my insight
is mature.
“These, Nàgasena, are the twenty-five duties of a
teacher towards his worthy pupil: he must always protect
his pupil, let him know what to cultivate and what to avoid,
what he should be earnest about and what neglect. He
should instruct him as to sleep, keeping in health, what
food to accept or reject, teach him moderation in food, and
share with him what he gets in his own almsbowl. He
should encourage him when he is discouraged and advise
him as to suitable company, villages and monasteries to
frequent. He should never indulge in joking or foolish talk
with him. Having seen any defect he should be patient with
him. He should be diligent, one who fulfils the precepts,
worthy of respect and open-hearted. He should regard him
as a son, strive to bring him forward, make him strong in
knowledge, love him, never desert him in need, never
neglect any duty and help him back onto the right path
when he stumbles.”
“O king, there are these ten qualities of a lay disciple.
He should share the joy and sorrow of the Order, take the
Dhamma as his guide, delight in giving as far as he is able and
should strive to revive the religion if it is in decay. He holds
right views and, being one free from the excitement of
celebrating festivals,
57 he does not run after another teacher
even for the sake of his life. He keeps watch over his thoughts,
words and deeds, delights in harmony and is unbiased. As he
is no hypocrite he takes refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and
Saïgha. All of these qualities are present in you, hence it is
proper and becoming in you that, seeing the decay in the
religion of the conqueror, you desire its prosperity. I give you
leave to ask me whatever you wish.”
1. On Honours Paid to the Buddha
Then, when leave had been granted, Milinda paid homage
and, with his hands joined in reverence, began by asking:
“Venerable Nàgasena, the leaders of other sects say, ‘If
the Buddha agrees to honour and gifts then he is not entirely
free from the world. Therefore any service rendered to him
becomes empty and vain.’ Tear apart this tangle of wrong-
views, solve this dilemma and give insight to the future
sons of the Buddha with which to refute their adversaries.”
“The Blessed One, O king, is entirely set free and has
no attachment to either gifts or honour paid to him.”
“Nàgasena, a son may speak in praise of his father, or
a father in praise of his son but that is not sufficient grounds
to silence the critics.”
57. cf. A. iii. 206. One of five qualities which lead to one being an outcaste. He is not one who
believes in the performance of rituals, or in omens; but he believes in deeds, so he
celebrates festivals by observing the eight precepts, listening to the Dhamma and
practising meditation
“Even though the Blessed One has now passed away
and cannot be said to accept gifts and honours paid to him
yet deeds done in his name are of value and bear great fruit.
As a great and mighty wind that blew, even so the Blessed
One has blown over the world with his love, so soothing, so
gentle and so pure. Like men tormented by heat and fever
are soothed by a cool wind, so, too, beings tormented by the
heat of desire, hatred and delusion are pacified by the sub-
lime teaching of the Blessed One. Although, great king, the
Blessed One has entirely passed away, he has left behind
his doctrine, his discipline and his precious relics whose
value derives from his virtue, concentration, wisdom and
freedom. Beings afflicted by the sorrows of becoming can
still receive the benefits of these things, as those who have
fans can still make a breeze although the wind has subsid-
ed. This was foreseen by the Blessed One when he said, ‘It
may be, ânanda, that some of you may think, “The word of
the master is ended; we have no teacher any more”, but you
should not regard it so. The Dhamma that has been
preached by me and the rules that I have laid down, let
them be your teachers when I am gone’.
58
“Hear another reason, O king. Did you ever hear that
the ogre Nandaka, who dared to strike the Elder Sàriputta,
was swallowed up by the earth?”
“Yes, venerable sir, that is common knowledge.”
“Did Venerable Sàriputta acquiesce in that?”
“Venerable Sàriputta would never agree to any pain
being inflicted on a fellow creature, for he had rooted out
all anger.”
58.D. ii. 154.
“Then, if Sàriputta did not consent to it, why was
Nandaka swallowed up by the earth?”
“It was because of the power of his evil deed.”
“How many, O king, are those who have been
swallowed up by the earth?”
“There are five, venerable sir; Ci¤ca the Brahmin
woman,
59 Suppabuddha the Sàkyan,
60 Devadatta,
61 Nandaka
the ogre62 and Nanda the Brahman63 — these have been
swallowed up by the earth.”
“And whom, O king, had they wronged?”
“The Blessed One or his disciples.”
“Therefore, O king, an act done to the Tathàgata, not-
withstanding his having passed away, is nevertheless of
value and bears fruit.”
“Well has this deep question been explained by you,
Nàgasena. You have disclosed that which was hidden,
undone the knot, cleared the thicket, refuted the false view
and the sectarians have been shrouded in darkness by you,
the best of all the leaders of schools.”
2. The Omniscience of the Buddha
“Nàgasena, was the Buddha omniscient?”
“Yes, O king, but the insight of knowledge was not
59.DhA. iii. 178, Commentary on Dhp. v 176. She was persuaded by the Buddha’s
opponents to accuse him of being her lover.
60.DhA. iii. 44 f, Commentary on Dhp. v 128. He was the father of Yasodharà and
Devadatta and while drunk stood in the road obstructing the Buddha.
61.DhA. i. 147 f, Commentary on Dhp. v 17. He attempted to kill the Buddha.
62.Vism. 380. He was the yakkha who struck Sàriputta on the head.
63.DhA. ii. 49, Commentary on Dhp. 69. He was a youth who raped the beautiful nun
Upalavaõõa, who was an arahant.
always with him. It depended on reflection.”
“Then, Nàgasena, the Buddha could not have been
omniscient if his knowledge was reached through re-
flection.”
“I will explain further. There are seven classes of men-
tal ability. Firstly, there are ordinary people (puthujjana)
who are full of desire, hatred and delusion; untrained in
their action, speech and thought; their thinking acts slowly
and with difficulty.
“Secondly, there are stream-winners who have
attained to right view and rightly grasped the Master’s
teaching. Their thinking powers are quick and function
easily as far as the first three fetters are concerned but
beyond that they function slowly and with difficulty.
“Thirdly, there are once-returners in whom desire
and hatred are reduced. Their thinking powers work
quickly and easily as far as the five lower fetters are
concerned but slowly and with difficulty beyond that.
“Fourthly, there are non-returners in whom desire
and hatred are eliminated. Their thinking powers work
quickly and easily as far as the ten fetters but slowly and
with difficulty beyond that.
“Fifthly, there are the arahants in whom the floods of
sensual desire, desire for rebirth, personality-belief and
ignorance have ceased, who have lived the holy life and
reached their final goal. Their thinking powers work
quickly as far as the range of a disciple is concerned but
slowly and with difficulty beyond that.
64
64.There is no lack in their wisdom, but as regards knowledge of former lives or
knowledge of the spiritual faculties of beings there is
“Sixthly, there are Solitary Buddhas who are depend-
ent on themselves alone, needing no teacher. Their thinking
powers work quickly as far as their own range is concerned
but as regards that which is exclusively the range of the
Perfectly Enlightened Ones their thinking works slowly
and with difficulty. Like a man who would readily cross a
small river that was on his own property but would hesi-
tate to cross the great ocean.
“Lastly, there are Perfectly Enlightened Buddhas who
have all knowledge, are endowed with the ten powers, the
four modes of fearlessness, and the eighteen characteristics
of a Buddha. Their thinking powers are quickly exercised
without sluggishness in any area of knowledge. As a sharp
bolt on a powerful crossbow would easily pass through a
thin cloth, just so their knowledge is unimpeded and easily
outclasses the other six. It is because their minds are so clear
and agile that the Buddhas can display the Twin Miracle.
65
From that we may only guess how clear and active their
powers are. For all these wonders there is no reason other
than reflection that can be asserted.”
“Nevertheless, Nàgasena, reflection is carried out for
the purpose of seeking out what was not already clear
before the reflection began.”
“A rich man would not be called poor just because
there was no food prepared when a traveller arrived at his
house unexpectedly; nor would a tree be called barren
when it was fully laden just because no fruit had yet fallen
65.A feat of supernormal power where fountains of fire and water issue simultaneously
from each pore of his body
on the ground. So too the Buddha is indeed omniscient
although his knowledge is gained through reflection.”
3. Devadatta’s Ordination
“If the Buddha was both omniscient and full of compassion
why did he admit Devadatta to the Order, since by causing
a schism66 [which only a bhikkhu can do] he was thereby
consigned to hell for an aeon?67 If the Buddha did not know
what Devadatta would do then he was not omniscient and
if he knew then he was not compassionate.”
“The Blessed One was both omniscient and full of
compassion. It was because he foresaw that Devadatta’s
suffering would become limited that he admitted him to
the Order. As a man of influence might have a criminal’s
sentence mitigated from execution to the cutting off of
hands and feet but would not thereby be responsible for the
pain and suffering that that man had to undergo, or as a
clever physician would make a critical disease lighter by
giving a powerful purgative, so did the Buddha reduce the
future suffering of Devadatta by admitting him to the
Order. After he has suffered for the rest of the aeon in
purgatory Devadatta will be released and become a
Solitary Buddha by the name of Aññhissara.”
“Great is the gift bestowed, Nàgasena, by the Blessed
One on Devadatta. The Tathàgata pointed out the road to
him when he was lost in the jungle, he gave him a firm
66.Schism occurs when two groups of four or more monks living within the same
boundary recite the Pàtimokkha separately.
67. Kappa, or Kalpa, see footnote to Dilemma 10.
foothold when he was falling down a precipice. Yet the
reason and meaning for this could only have been pointed
out by one as wise as you!”
4. Causes of Earthquakes
“The Buddha said, Nàgasena, that there are eight causes of
a great earthquake.
68 Yet we find that there is a ninth cause
also mentioned in the texts. When the Bodhisatta Ves-
santara fulfilled the perfection of generosity by giving
away his wife and children as servants then, too, did the
great earth shake. If the former statement of the Buddha is
true then the latter is false.”
“Both statements, O king, are correct. The gift of Ves-
santara was not mentioned as a ninth cause of a great earth-
quake because it is an extremely rare occurrence. Just as the
dried up creek that does not usually hold water is not called
a river, but in times of exceptional rainfall it becomes a
river, so too the largesse of Vessantara was an isolated and
extraordinary occurrence, and for that reason one distinct
from the eight usual causes of a great earthquake.
“Have you ever heard, O king, in the history of our
religion of any act of devotion that gave its result in this
very life?”
“Yes, venerable Nàgasena, there are seven such cases:
Sumana the garland maker,
69
Ekasàñaka the brahman,
70
68.D. ii. 107; A iv. 312.
69.DhA. ii. 40f, Dhp. v 68.
70.DhA. iii. 1, Dhp. v 116.
Puõõa the farm worker,
71 Mallikà the queen,
72 the queen
known as the mother of Gopàla,
73 Suppiyà the devoted
woman74 and Puõõà the slave-girl.”75
“But have you ever heard, O king, of the earth shak-
ing even once or twice when a gift had been given?”
“No, venerable sir, I have never heard of that.”
“I too, O king, have never heard of such a thing,
though I have been devoted to study and ready to learn,
except for this case of the splendid gift of Vessantara. It is
by no common effort, O king, that the great earth is moved.
It is when overburdened by the weight of righteousness,
overpowered by the burden of the goodness of acts that
testify to absolute purity; that, unable to support it, the
broad earth quakes and trembles. When Vessantara gave
his gift, O king, he was giving things away not for the sake
of a glorious rebirth, nor for future wealth, nor to receive
gifts in return, nor for flattery, nor for any other personal
gain, but only for the sake of supreme wisdom.”
5. Asseveration of Truth
“King Sãvi gave his eyes to someone who begged for them
and new eyes arose in their place.
76 How is this possible?”
71.DhA. iii. 302f, Dhp. v 223.
72.Jà. iii. 405, Dhp. v 177.
73.AA. i. 207f.
74.Vin. i. 217-8. Having promised meat broth to a monk she was unable to buy any meat
so she cut a piece from her own thigh prepared broth and offered it to the monk. When
the Buddha met her the wound healed miraculously. See also Dilemma 73.
75.DhA. iii. 321, Dhp. v 226.
76.Jà. No. 499.
“It was by the power of the truth that it happened. As
when mystics recite the truth they can make the rain fall,
drive back fire or neutralize poison.
“When Asoka the righteous ruler stood one day among
the townsfolk of Pàñaliputta he said to his ministers; ‘Is there
anyone who could make this great Ganges flow backwards
and upstream?’ Then a certain courtesan, named Bindumatã,
was in the crowd and she performed an act of truth. At that
very moment the mighty Ganges, roaring and raging, rolled
back upstream in sight of everyone. The king, awestruck,
sought out the woman who was the cause of this and asked
her, ‘What is the act of truth by which you did this?’ She re-
plied, ‘Whoever pays me, whether he is a brahmin, a noble, a
tradesman or a servant, I regard them all alike. Free from bias
I do service to him who has paid me. This is the basis of the
act of truth77 by which I turned the Ganges back.’
“There is no ordinary cause for those things to
happen but the power of truth is itself the cause. And there
is no reason for the realisation of the Four Noble Truths
other than the power of truth.”
6. The Dilemma Regarding Conception
“The Blessed One said, Nàgasena, that there is conception
in a womb with the coincidence of three causes; coitus of
the parents,
78 the mother’s season and a being to be born.
79
77.There are many examples in the Jàtaka, e.g. Jà. i. 214, 215. It is not necessary for the truth
averred to be commendable. cf. Jà. iv. 31-33.
78. See Ja. Nos. 497, 523, 526; and Vin. iii. 205f for examples of conception without sexual
intercourse.
79.M. i. 265, M. ii. 157.
However, he also said that when the ascetic Dukàla
touched the navel of the ascetic woman Pàrikà with his
thumb the boy Sàma was conceived.
80 If the first statement
is true then the latter must be false.”
“Both statements are true, O king, but you should not
think that there was any transgression in the latter case.
Sakka, the king of the gods, having seen that those virtuous
ascetics would become blind, entreated them to have a son.
However, they would not consent to intercourse even to
save their lives, so Sakka intervened by instructing Dukàla
and thus Sàma was conceived.”
7. The Duration of the Religion
“After the ordination of women, the Blessed One said that
the pure doctrine would only last for five hundred years.
81
However, to Subaddha he said, ‘So long as the brethren live
the perfect holy life then this world will not be bereft of
arahants.’ These statements are contradictory.”
“O king, the Blessed One did make both statements,
but they are different in the spirit and in the letter. One
deals with the duration of the pure doctrine whereas the
other deals with the practice of the religious life, two things
widely distinct. In saying five hundred years he was fixing
a limit to religion but in speaking to Subaddha he was de-
claring in what religion consisted. If the sons of the Buddha
continue to exert themselves in the five factors of striving,
82
80.Jà. No. 540.
81.The Sri Lankan text gives an alternative reading of 5,000 years.
82. Padhàna — Confidence, good health, honesty, energy and wisdom
have a sincere desire for the three trainings,
83 perfecting
themselves in conduct and virtue; then the glorious teach-
ing of the Conqueror will long endure and stand more and
more steadfast as the years roll on. The teaching of the Mas-
ter, O king, has its root in practice, practice is its essence,
and it stands as long as practice does not decline.
There are three modes of disappearance of a teaching.
The decline of the attainment to a clear insight into it, of
practice in accordance with it, and decline in the outward
form of it. When the intellectual grasp ceases then even the
man who conducts himself rightly has no clear understand-
ing of it. By the decline of practice, promulgation of the
Vinaya rules ceases and only the outward form of the reli-
gion remains. When the outward form ceases then the suc-
cession of the tradition is cut off.”
8. Purity of the Buddha
“If the Tathàgata destroyed all unwholesomeness in him-
self when he gained omniscience why did he get hurt by a
splinter of rock that was thrown by Devadatta? If he did
get hurt then he cannot have been free from all evil, for
there is no feeling without kamma. All feeling has its root
in kamma and it is only on account of kamma that feeling
arises.”
“No, great king, not all feeling has its root in kamma.
There are eight causes of the arising of feelings. Excess of
wind, of bile and of phlegm, the mixture of the three bodily
fluids, variations in temperature, stress of circumstances,
83. Sãla, samàdhi, pa¤¤à (Virtue, concentration and wisdom).
external agency and kamma. Whoever says, ‘It is only kam-
ma that oppresses beings’, thereby excludes the other seven
reasons and that statement of theirs is wrong.
“When one’s wind is disturbed it happens in one of
ten ways; by cold, by heat, by hunger, by thirst, by over-
eating, by standing too long, by over exertion, by running,
by medical treatment, or as a result of kamma. When the bile
is disturbed it is in one of three ways; by cold, by heat or by
unsuitable food. When the phlegm is disturbed it is in one
of three ways; by cold, by heat or by eating and drinking.
When these three disturbed fluids are mixed it brings about
its own distinctive pain. Then there are pains arising from
variations in temperature, stress of circumstances and by
external agencies. There is also that pain which has kamma
as its cause. So the pain that is due to kamma is much less
than that due to other causes. The ignorant go too far when
they say that everything that is experienced is produced as
the fruit of kamma. Without a Buddha’s insight no one can
ascertain the extent of the action of kamma.
When the Blessed One’s foot was grazed by the splin-
ter of rock the pain was produced only by external agency.
Although the Blessed One never suffered pain that was the
result of his own kamma, or brought about by the stress of
circumstances, he suffered pain from each of the other six
causes.
84
It was said, O king, by the Blessed One, ‘There are cer-
tain pains, Sãvaka, which arise from bilious humours and
you ought to know what they are for, it is a matter of com-
84.This is a controversial point. There are several references to the Buddha experiencing
the result of previous kamma collected at Ap. i. 299ff
mon knowledge. Those ascetics and Brahmans who are of
the opinion and proclaim the view that all feelings that men
experience are due to a previous act, go beyond certainty
and knowledge and therein I say that they are wrong’.”85
9. Perfection of the Buddha
“If the Tathàgata had accomplished everything under the
bodhi tree why did he spend a further three months in
solitude?86 If a man has eaten and is satisfied, what is the
use of further food; if a man is healthy, what is the use of
him taking medicine?”
“O king, solitary meditation has many benefits. All
the Tathàgatas attained to Buddhahood thereby and prac-
tised it in appreciation of its benefits to mankind. There are
twenty-eight benefits of solitude: it guards him, increases
his life expectancy, gives him vigour, conceals his failings,
removes any bad reputation and brings fame, destroys dis-
content and brings satisfaction, banishes fear and endows
him with confidence, removes sloth and fills him with zeal,
takes away desire, hatred and delusion, subdues pride, dis-
rupts discursive thought and makes the mind one-pointed,
softens his mind and makes him light-hearted, makes him
serious, brings him material gain, makes him worthy of
reverence, brings him joy, fills him with delight, shows him
the true nature of all formations, puts an end to rebirth, and
gains for him all the fruits of a life of renunciation. It is be-
85.S. iv. 230f, Moliya Sãvaka Sutta.
86.Between the enlightenment (Vesàkha) and the first sermon (Asàëha) there are only two
months, but there was an occasion when the Buddha spent three months in solitude.
cf.Commentary to Dhp. v 6.
cause the Tathàgata has in mind these manifold benefits
that he follows the practice of seclusion.
“There are altogether four reasons why the Tathà-
gatas devote themselves to solitude. For the sake of dwell-
ing at ease, because of its blameless qualities, because it is
the way to all noble things without exception, and because
it has been praised and exalted by all the Buddhas. It is not
because they have anything left to achieve or anything to
add to what they have already accomplished but only
because of these excellent advantages that they practice
seclusion.”
10. Equanimity of the Buddha
“The Buddha said that, if he wished, he could live for the
remainder of the world-cycle87 but he also said that he
would die at the end of three months.
88 How can both of
these statements be true?”
“Aeon, O king, in that connection means a man’s life-
span and what the Buddha said was in order to exalt the
bases of success (iddhipàda). The Blessed One was entirely
free from desire for any kind of future life and condemned
them all for he said, ‘I find no beauty in the smallest part of
future life, just as even a small quantity of excrement is of
bad smell’.”89
87.D. ii. 103. — A world-cycle (kappa) usually refers to a period of evolution and dissolution
of the world but here it means a man’s average life-span; about 100 years at the time of
the Buddha, now only 75 years. It is said to be reducing by one year every century. An
incalculable aeon (asaïkheyya) is much longer.
88.D. ii. 119.
89. A. i. 34.
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - Memory
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - Memory
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 7
Memory
1.“In how many ways, Nàgasena, does
memory spring up?”
“In seventeen ways,
51 O king. That is to
say; by personal experience, as when one
like ânanda can recollect his previous lives
(without special development); by outward aid, as when
others remind one who is forgetful; by the greatness of
some occasion, as when a king remembers his coronation or
as one remembers attaining the stage of a stream-winner;
by the impression made by benefit, as when one remem-
bers that which gave him pleasure; by the impression made
by detriment, as when one remembers that which gave him
pain; by similarity of appearance, as one remembers one’s
mother or father or brother or sister on seeing someone like
them; by dissimilarity of appearance, as one remembers
someone on seeing one unlike them; by the knowledge of
speech, as when one is reminded by others; by a sign, as
when one recognises a draught bullock by seeing a brand
mark; by effort to recollect, as when one is urged again and
again; by knowledge of spelling, as one who knows how to
write remembers that such a letter follows another; by
arithmetic, as when accountants do large sums by their skill
51.Rhys Davids and I.B. Homer have sixteen here but the Burmese edition of the text has
‘sattarasa’ (17) and 17 ways are listed.
with figures; by learning by heart, as reciters of scriptures
recollect by their skill in reciting; by meditation, as when a
monk recalls his previous lives; by reference to a book, as
when kings call to mind a regulation made previously by
reference to a book; by a pledge, as when a man recollects
by the sight of goods deposited the circumstances under
which they were pledged; or by association, as when on
seeing or hearing something one remembers other things
associated with it.”
2.“You say that a man who has lived an evil life for a
hundred years can, by thinking of the Buddha at the
moment of his death, be reborn among the gods; and that a
good man can, by one bad deed, be born in hell. These two
things I do not believe.”
“What do you think, O king. Would a tiny stone float
on water without a boat?”
“No.”
“But even a cartload of stones would float in a boat.
So you should think of good deeds as a boat.”
3.“Do you monks strive after the removal of past,
present and future suffering?”
“No. We strive so that this suffering should cease and
no other suffering should arise.”
“But is there now, Nàgasena, such a thing as future
suffering?”
“No.”
“Then you are extremely clever to strive after the
removal of it!”
“Have rival kings ever risen up to oppose you, O
king?”
“Yes they have.”
“Was it only then that you made preparations for
battle?”
“Not at all. All that had been done beforehand in
order to ward off future danger.”
“But is there now, O king, such a thing as future
danger?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“Then you are extremely clever to strive after the
removal of it!”
“Well answered, Nàgasena, you are dexterous in
reply.”
4.“How far is it to the Brahmà realm?”
“Very far, O king; it would take a rock four months to
reach the earth from the Brahmà realm even though it fell
48,000 leagues each day.”
“So how can a monk travel there so quickly even by
supernormal power?”
“Where were you born, O king?”
“There is an island called Alasanda; I was born there.”
“How far is it from here?”
“About two hundred leagues.”
“Do you recall any business you did there?”
“Yes I do.”
“So quickly you have gone two hundred leagues! Just
so, the monk can reach the Brahmà realm at once by
supernormal power.”
5.The king asked, “If one man were to die and be reborn
in the Brahmà realm and at the same moment another
man were to die and be reborn in Kashmir which man
would arrive first?”
“How far is your home town from here?”
“Two hundred leagues.”
“And how far is Kashmir?”
“Twelve leagues.”
“Which of them did you recall more quickly?”
“Both the same venerable sir.”
“Just so, O king, those men who died at the same
moment would be reborn at the same moment.”
6.“How many factors of enlightenment are there?”
“Seven, O king.”
“By how many factors does one awaken to the truth?”
“By one, investigation of truth, for nothing can be
understood without that.”
“Then why is it said that there are seven?”
“Could the sword that is in your scabbard cut any-
thing if it was not taken up in the hand?”
“No venerable sir.”
“Just so, O king, without the other factors of enlighten-
ment, investigation of truth could not awaken to the truth.”
7.“Which is the greater, merit or demerit?”
“Merit, O king. One who does wrong feels remorse
and realises his mistake, thereby demerit does not increase.
However, one who does merit feels no remorse; and glad-
ness and joy arise, and so rejoicing he will be at ease, being
relaxed he will feel contented, being content his mind will
be easily concentrated, being concentrated he will see
things as they really are. In that way merit increases. So
merit is much greater. Demerit is relatively insignificant.”
8.“Which is the greater demerit, conscious or uncon-
scious wrongdoing?”
“Unconscious wrong-doing, O king.”52
“Then we should doubly punish those who do wrong
unconsciously.”
“What do you think, O king, would a man be more
seriously burned if he seized a red-hot iron ball not
knowing it was hot than he would be if he knew.”
“He would be burned more severely if he didn’t
know it was hot.”
“Just so, O king, it is the same with the man who does
wrong unconsciously.”
9.“Is there anyone who can physically go to the Brahmà
realm or to another continent?”
“Yes, O king, there is. As easily as you can jump a
short distance by determining in your mind, ‘I will land
there’, so too one who has developed absorption (jhàna) can
go to the Brahmà realm.”
10. “Are there bones 100 leagues long?”
“Yes there are fish in the ocean 500 leagues long
(about 3,500 miles!) who have such bones.”53
52.All wrong-doing is rooted in ignorance, so one who does wrong knowingly will feel
remorse and correct himself sooner than one who is deluded (Editor’s Note).
53.The one that got away! cf A. iv. 200.
11.“Is it possible to suppress the respiration?”
“Yes it is. As it is possible to stop the snoring of one of
undeveloped mind by bending his body, so it is possible for
one of well developed mind to suppress the respiration.”
12.“Why is the ocean so called?”
“Because it is a uniform mixture of salt and water.”
(Sama = even, Udda = water, Samudda = ocean).
13.“Why is the ocean all of one taste?”
“Because it has stood for so long.”54
14.“Is it possible to dissect even the most subtle thing?”
“Yes, O king. Wisdom is able to dissect every subtle
thing.”
“What is meant by every subtle thing?”
“Dhamma55 is everything subtle. However, not all
dhammas are subtle, some are coarse. Subtle and coarse are
only concepts. Whatever is divisible can be divided by
wisdom. There is nothing else that can dissect wisdom.”
15.“These three, Nàgasena, consciousness (vi¤¤àõa),
wisdom (pa¤¤à) and the soul (bhåtasmiü jãvo); are they
different in essence or only in name?”
“Knowing, O king, is the mark of consciousness and
discrimination56 is the mark of wisdom. A soul cannot be
found.”
54. cf. A. iv. 203 “Just as the ocean is of one taste, the taste of salt; so the Dhamma is of one
taste, the taste of freedom [from suffering].”
55.Dhamma here is a technical term meaning phenomenon or state. Elsewhere it also
means truth, law, doctrine.
56.As well as cutting off and illuminating already given above.
16.The elder said, “A hard thing has been done by the
Blessed One; the distinguishing of all those mental condi-
tions that depend on an organ of sense, showing such and
such is contact, such is feeling, such is perception, such is
intention and such is the mind (citta).”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If a man were to take a handful of water from the
ocean and tasting it could say, ‘This water is from the
Ganges, this from the Jumna, this from the Gandak, this
from the Sarabhu, and this from the Mahi.’ More difficult
than this is the distinguishing of those mental states that
accompany any one of the senses.” Since it was midnight
the king made offerings to Nàgasena and the king said,
“Like a lion in a golden cage longs only for freedom, so do
I long for the monk’s life but I would not live long, so many
are my enemies.”
Then Nàgasena, having solved the questions put by
King Milinda, arose from his seat and returned to the
hermitage. Not long after Nàgasena had gone, King
Milinda reflected on the questions and answers and
concluded, “Everything was rightly asked by me and
everything was properly answered by Nàgasena.” Back at
his hermitage, Nàgasena reflected and concluded in a
similar manner.
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 7
Memory
1.“In how many ways, Nàgasena, does
memory spring up?”
“In seventeen ways,
51 O king. That is to
say; by personal experience, as when one
like ânanda can recollect his previous lives
(without special development); by outward aid, as when
others remind one who is forgetful; by the greatness of
some occasion, as when a king remembers his coronation or
as one remembers attaining the stage of a stream-winner;
by the impression made by benefit, as when one remem-
bers that which gave him pleasure; by the impression made
by detriment, as when one remembers that which gave him
pain; by similarity of appearance, as one remembers one’s
mother or father or brother or sister on seeing someone like
them; by dissimilarity of appearance, as one remembers
someone on seeing one unlike them; by the knowledge of
speech, as when one is reminded by others; by a sign, as
when one recognises a draught bullock by seeing a brand
mark; by effort to recollect, as when one is urged again and
again; by knowledge of spelling, as one who knows how to
write remembers that such a letter follows another; by
arithmetic, as when accountants do large sums by their skill
51.Rhys Davids and I.B. Homer have sixteen here but the Burmese edition of the text has
‘sattarasa’ (17) and 17 ways are listed.
with figures; by learning by heart, as reciters of scriptures
recollect by their skill in reciting; by meditation, as when a
monk recalls his previous lives; by reference to a book, as
when kings call to mind a regulation made previously by
reference to a book; by a pledge, as when a man recollects
by the sight of goods deposited the circumstances under
which they were pledged; or by association, as when on
seeing or hearing something one remembers other things
associated with it.”
2.“You say that a man who has lived an evil life for a
hundred years can, by thinking of the Buddha at the
moment of his death, be reborn among the gods; and that a
good man can, by one bad deed, be born in hell. These two
things I do not believe.”
“What do you think, O king. Would a tiny stone float
on water without a boat?”
“No.”
“But even a cartload of stones would float in a boat.
So you should think of good deeds as a boat.”
3.“Do you monks strive after the removal of past,
present and future suffering?”
“No. We strive so that this suffering should cease and
no other suffering should arise.”
“But is there now, Nàgasena, such a thing as future
suffering?”
“No.”
“Then you are extremely clever to strive after the
removal of it!”
“Have rival kings ever risen up to oppose you, O
king?”
“Yes they have.”
“Was it only then that you made preparations for
battle?”
“Not at all. All that had been done beforehand in
order to ward off future danger.”
“But is there now, O king, such a thing as future
danger?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“Then you are extremely clever to strive after the
removal of it!”
“Well answered, Nàgasena, you are dexterous in
reply.”
4.“How far is it to the Brahmà realm?”
“Very far, O king; it would take a rock four months to
reach the earth from the Brahmà realm even though it fell
48,000 leagues each day.”
“So how can a monk travel there so quickly even by
supernormal power?”
“Where were you born, O king?”
“There is an island called Alasanda; I was born there.”
“How far is it from here?”
“About two hundred leagues.”
“Do you recall any business you did there?”
“Yes I do.”
“So quickly you have gone two hundred leagues! Just
so, the monk can reach the Brahmà realm at once by
supernormal power.”
5.The king asked, “If one man were to die and be reborn
in the Brahmà realm and at the same moment another
man were to die and be reborn in Kashmir which man
would arrive first?”
“How far is your home town from here?”
“Two hundred leagues.”
“And how far is Kashmir?”
“Twelve leagues.”
“Which of them did you recall more quickly?”
“Both the same venerable sir.”
“Just so, O king, those men who died at the same
moment would be reborn at the same moment.”
6.“How many factors of enlightenment are there?”
“Seven, O king.”
“By how many factors does one awaken to the truth?”
“By one, investigation of truth, for nothing can be
understood without that.”
“Then why is it said that there are seven?”
“Could the sword that is in your scabbard cut any-
thing if it was not taken up in the hand?”
“No venerable sir.”
“Just so, O king, without the other factors of enlighten-
ment, investigation of truth could not awaken to the truth.”
7.“Which is the greater, merit or demerit?”
“Merit, O king. One who does wrong feels remorse
and realises his mistake, thereby demerit does not increase.
However, one who does merit feels no remorse; and glad-
ness and joy arise, and so rejoicing he will be at ease, being
relaxed he will feel contented, being content his mind will
be easily concentrated, being concentrated he will see
things as they really are. In that way merit increases. So
merit is much greater. Demerit is relatively insignificant.”
8.“Which is the greater demerit, conscious or uncon-
scious wrongdoing?”
“Unconscious wrong-doing, O king.”52
“Then we should doubly punish those who do wrong
unconsciously.”
“What do you think, O king, would a man be more
seriously burned if he seized a red-hot iron ball not
knowing it was hot than he would be if he knew.”
“He would be burned more severely if he didn’t
know it was hot.”
“Just so, O king, it is the same with the man who does
wrong unconsciously.”
9.“Is there anyone who can physically go to the Brahmà
realm or to another continent?”
“Yes, O king, there is. As easily as you can jump a
short distance by determining in your mind, ‘I will land
there’, so too one who has developed absorption (jhàna) can
go to the Brahmà realm.”
10. “Are there bones 100 leagues long?”
“Yes there are fish in the ocean 500 leagues long
(about 3,500 miles!) who have such bones.”53
52.All wrong-doing is rooted in ignorance, so one who does wrong knowingly will feel
remorse and correct himself sooner than one who is deluded (Editor’s Note).
53.The one that got away! cf A. iv. 200.
11.“Is it possible to suppress the respiration?”
“Yes it is. As it is possible to stop the snoring of one of
undeveloped mind by bending his body, so it is possible for
one of well developed mind to suppress the respiration.”
12.“Why is the ocean so called?”
“Because it is a uniform mixture of salt and water.”
(Sama = even, Udda = water, Samudda = ocean).
13.“Why is the ocean all of one taste?”
“Because it has stood for so long.”54
14.“Is it possible to dissect even the most subtle thing?”
“Yes, O king. Wisdom is able to dissect every subtle
thing.”
“What is meant by every subtle thing?”
“Dhamma55 is everything subtle. However, not all
dhammas are subtle, some are coarse. Subtle and coarse are
only concepts. Whatever is divisible can be divided by
wisdom. There is nothing else that can dissect wisdom.”
15.“These three, Nàgasena, consciousness (vi¤¤àõa),
wisdom (pa¤¤à) and the soul (bhåtasmiü jãvo); are they
different in essence or only in name?”
“Knowing, O king, is the mark of consciousness and
discrimination56 is the mark of wisdom. A soul cannot be
found.”
54. cf. A. iv. 203 “Just as the ocean is of one taste, the taste of salt; so the Dhamma is of one
taste, the taste of freedom [from suffering].”
55.Dhamma here is a technical term meaning phenomenon or state. Elsewhere it also
means truth, law, doctrine.
56.As well as cutting off and illuminating already given above.
16.The elder said, “A hard thing has been done by the
Blessed One; the distinguishing of all those mental condi-
tions that depend on an organ of sense, showing such and
such is contact, such is feeling, such is perception, such is
intention and such is the mind (citta).”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If a man were to take a handful of water from the
ocean and tasting it could say, ‘This water is from the
Ganges, this from the Jumna, this from the Gandak, this
from the Sarabhu, and this from the Mahi.’ More difficult
than this is the distinguishing of those mental states that
accompany any one of the senses.” Since it was midnight
the king made offerings to Nàgasena and the king said,
“Like a lion in a golden cage longs only for freedom, so do
I long for the monk’s life but I would not live long, so many
are my enemies.”
Then Nàgasena, having solved the questions put by
King Milinda, arose from his seat and returned to the
hermitage. Not long after Nàgasena had gone, King
Milinda reflected on the questions and answers and
concluded, “Everything was rightly asked by me and
everything was properly answered by Nàgasena.” Back at
his hermitage, Nàgasena reflected and concluded in a
similar manner.
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - Attachment
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - Attachment
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 6
Attachment
1.“Is the body, Nàgasena, dear to you
recluses?”
“No great king.”
“Then why do you nourish it and lavish
attention upon it?”
“We nourish it and care for it as you would
care for a wound, not because the wound was dear to you
but just so the flesh may grow again. For this was said by
the Blessed One:
“This filthy body stinks outright
Like ordure, like a privy’s site;
This body men that have insight,
Condemn, is object of a fool’s delight.
“A tumour where nine holes abide
Wrapped in a coat of clammy hide47
And trickling filth on every side,
“Polluting the air with stenches far and wide.
If it perchance should come about
That what is inside it came out
Surely a man would need a knout
With which to put the dogs and crows to rout’.”48
47.Only these latter two lines are in Miln.
48.Vism. 196. Translation, Bhikkhu ¥àõamoli.
2.“If the Buddha was omniscient why did he lay down
the rules for the Order only when the occasion arose?”
“He laid down the rules only when the need arose as
a skilled doctor only prescribes medicine when the need
arises although he knows all the medicines in advance of a
disease arising.”
3.“If the Buddha was endowed with the thirty-two
marks of a great man49 why were his parents not also so
endowed?”
“As a lotus that is born in the mud and comes to
perfection in the water does not resemble them, so the
Buddha was unlike his parents.”
4.“Was the Buddha a Brahmacàrin, a celibate?”
“Yes he was.”
“Then he was a follower of Brahmà!”
“Although an elephant’s sound is like a heron’s he is
not a follower of herons. Tell me, great king, is Brahmà one
with intelligence (buddhi)?”
“Yes.”
“Then surely he is a follower of the Buddha!”
5.“Is ordination a good thing?”
“Yes it is.”
“But did the Buddha obtain it or not?”
“Great king, when the Buddha attained omniscience
at the foot of the Bodhi tree, that was for him an ordination;
49.Physical characteristics that are predicted by astrology. See D. ii. 17; M. ii. 136; Milnò. 17
there was no conferring of ordination upon him by others
in the way that he has laid down for his disciples.”
6.“To whom are tears a cure; to the man who weeps at
the death of his mother or to him who weeps due to
affection for the truth?”
“The tears of the first, O king, are stained and hot with
passion but the tears of the second are stainless and cool.
There is a cure in coolness and calm but in heat and passion
there can be no cure.”
7.“What is the distinction between one who is full of
passion and one who is devoid of passion?”
“The one is enslaved, O king, and the other is not
enslaved.”
“What does that mean?”
“One is in want but the other is not.”
“But both of them like good food, neither likes bad
food.”
“The man who is passionate, O king, eats his food
experiencing both the taste and the passion for the taste,
but the man without passion experiences only the taste and
not the passion arising therefrom.”
8.“Where does wisdom dwell?”
“Nowhere, O king.”
“Then there is no wisdom.”
“Where does the wind dwell?”
“Nowhere.”
“Then there is no wind!”
“You are dexterous, Nàgasena, in reply.
9.“What is meant by the round of rebirths (saüsàra)?”
“Whoever is born here, dies here and is born else-
where. Having been born there they die and are born some-
where else.”
10.“By what do we remember what was done long ago?”
“By memory (sati).“
“Is it not by mind (citta) that we recollect?”
“Do you, O king, recollect any business that you have
done and then forgotten?”
“Yes.”
“Were you then without a mind?”
“No, but my memory failed me.”
“Then why do you say that it is by mind that we
recollect?”
11.“Does memory always arise subjectively or is it
stirred up by suggestion from outside?”
“Both, O king.”
“But doesn’t that amount to all memory being sub-
jective in origin?”50
“If, O king, there were no imparted memory then
artisans would have no need of practice or schooling and
teachers would be useless, but the contrary is the case.”
50.It is not clear to me what is meant here. Perhaps King Milinda is suggesting that since a
recollection prompted by another afterwards arises by one’s own mental effort it is
subjective in origin.
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 6
Attachment
1.“Is the body, Nàgasena, dear to you
recluses?”
“No great king.”
“Then why do you nourish it and lavish
attention upon it?”
“We nourish it and care for it as you would
care for a wound, not because the wound was dear to you
but just so the flesh may grow again. For this was said by
the Blessed One:
“This filthy body stinks outright
Like ordure, like a privy’s site;
This body men that have insight,
Condemn, is object of a fool’s delight.
“A tumour where nine holes abide
Wrapped in a coat of clammy hide47
And trickling filth on every side,
“Polluting the air with stenches far and wide.
If it perchance should come about
That what is inside it came out
Surely a man would need a knout
With which to put the dogs and crows to rout’.”48
47.Only these latter two lines are in Miln.
48.Vism. 196. Translation, Bhikkhu ¥àõamoli.
2.“If the Buddha was omniscient why did he lay down
the rules for the Order only when the occasion arose?”
“He laid down the rules only when the need arose as
a skilled doctor only prescribes medicine when the need
arises although he knows all the medicines in advance of a
disease arising.”
3.“If the Buddha was endowed with the thirty-two
marks of a great man49 why were his parents not also so
endowed?”
“As a lotus that is born in the mud and comes to
perfection in the water does not resemble them, so the
Buddha was unlike his parents.”
4.“Was the Buddha a Brahmacàrin, a celibate?”
“Yes he was.”
“Then he was a follower of Brahmà!”
“Although an elephant’s sound is like a heron’s he is
not a follower of herons. Tell me, great king, is Brahmà one
with intelligence (buddhi)?”
“Yes.”
“Then surely he is a follower of the Buddha!”
5.“Is ordination a good thing?”
“Yes it is.”
“But did the Buddha obtain it or not?”
“Great king, when the Buddha attained omniscience
at the foot of the Bodhi tree, that was for him an ordination;
49.Physical characteristics that are predicted by astrology. See D. ii. 17; M. ii. 136; Milnò. 17
there was no conferring of ordination upon him by others
in the way that he has laid down for his disciples.”
6.“To whom are tears a cure; to the man who weeps at
the death of his mother or to him who weeps due to
affection for the truth?”
“The tears of the first, O king, are stained and hot with
passion but the tears of the second are stainless and cool.
There is a cure in coolness and calm but in heat and passion
there can be no cure.”
7.“What is the distinction between one who is full of
passion and one who is devoid of passion?”
“The one is enslaved, O king, and the other is not
enslaved.”
“What does that mean?”
“One is in want but the other is not.”
“But both of them like good food, neither likes bad
food.”
“The man who is passionate, O king, eats his food
experiencing both the taste and the passion for the taste,
but the man without passion experiences only the taste and
not the passion arising therefrom.”
8.“Where does wisdom dwell?”
“Nowhere, O king.”
“Then there is no wisdom.”
“Where does the wind dwell?”
“Nowhere.”
“Then there is no wind!”
“You are dexterous, Nàgasena, in reply.
9.“What is meant by the round of rebirths (saüsàra)?”
“Whoever is born here, dies here and is born else-
where. Having been born there they die and are born some-
where else.”
10.“By what do we remember what was done long ago?”
“By memory (sati).“
“Is it not by mind (citta) that we recollect?”
“Do you, O king, recollect any business that you have
done and then forgotten?”
“Yes.”
“Were you then without a mind?”
“No, but my memory failed me.”
“Then why do you say that it is by mind that we
recollect?”
11.“Does memory always arise subjectively or is it
stirred up by suggestion from outside?”
“Both, O king.”
“But doesn’t that amount to all memory being sub-
jective in origin?”50
“If, O king, there were no imparted memory then
artisans would have no need of practice or schooling and
teachers would be useless, but the contrary is the case.”
50.It is not clear to me what is meant here. Perhaps King Milinda is suggesting that since a
recollection prompted by another afterwards arises by one’s own mental effort it is
subjective in origin.
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Buddha
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Buddha
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 5
The Buddha
1.“Have you or your teachers seen the
Buddha?”
“No, great king.”
“Then, Nàgasena, there is no Buddha!”
“Have you or your father seen the River
æhà40 in the Himalayas?”
“No venerable sir.”
“Then would it be right to say there is no river æhà?”
“You are dexterous, Nàgasena, in reply.”
2.“Is the Buddha incomparable?”
“Yes he is.”
“But how can you know if you have never seen him?”
“Just as those who have never seen the ocean can
know how great it is because the five great rivers flow into
it but thereby it does not rise; so do I know that the Buddha
is incomparable when I think of those great teachers, whom
I have seen, who are only his disciples.”
3.“How can others know that the Buddha is incompar-
able?”
“Long ago there was a master of writing named Tissa
Thera.
41
How can people know about him?”
40.The source of the Ganges.
41.Possibly a reference to Moggalliputta Tissa Thera, the convenor of the Third Council
and author of the Kathàvatthu, ‘Points of Controversy
“By his writing.”
“Just so, O king, whosoever the sees the Dhamma
taught by Blessed One can know that he is incomparable.”
4.“Have you, Nàgasena, seen what the truth is?”
“We disciples, O king, have to conduct ourselves
according to the rules laid down by the Buddha.”42
5.“Can there be any rebirth where there is no trans-
migration?”
“Yes there can, just as a man can light one oil-lamp
from another but nothing moves from one lamp to the
other; or as a pupil can learn a verse by heart from a teacher
but the verse does not transmigrate from teacher to pupil.”
6.Then Milinda asked again, “Is there such a thing as
‘The one who knows’, (vedagå)?”
“Not in the ultimate sense.”43
7.“Is there any being who transmigrates from this body
to another?”
“No there is not.”
“If so, would there not be an escape from the result of
evil deeds?”
“Yes there would be an escape if they were not to be
reborn but there would not be if they were to be reborn.
42.There is a training rule (Pàcittiya No. 8) preventing monks from disclosing any spiritual
attainments.
43.There are two levels of truth; conventional truth and ultimate truth. In the conventional
sense it would be wrong to say that a person does not exist; but in the ultimate sense it
is right. In reality there is only a continuously changing stream of mind and matter,
which we mistake for a person. (Editor’s Note)
This mind and body process commits deeds either pure or
impure, and because of that kamma another mind and body
process is reborn. Therefore this mind and body is not free
from its evil deeds.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If a thief were to steal another man’s mangoes,
would he deserve punishment?”
“Indeed he would.”
“But the mangoes he stole were not those that the
owner had planted; why should he deserve punishment?”
“Because those that he stole resulted from the others.”
“Just so, O king, this mind and body process commits
deeds either pure or impure, and because of that kamma
another mind and body process is reborn. Therefore this
mind and body is not free from its evil deeds.”
8.“When deeds are committed by one mind and body
process, where do they remain?”
“The deeds follow them, O king, like a shadow that
never leaves. However, one cannot point them out saying,
‘Those deeds are here or there’, just as the fruits of a tree
cannot be pointed out before they are produced.”
9.“Would he who is about to be reborn know it?”
“Yes he would, just as a farmer who puts seed into the
ground, seeing it rain well, would know that a crop will be
produced.”44
10.“Is there such a person as the Buddha?”
44. cf. Question 2 in Chapter Two.
“Yes.”
“Can he be pointed out as being here or there?”
“The Blessed One has passed away and nothing
remains to form another individual. He cannot be pointed
out as being here or there just as the flame of a fire that has
gone out cannot be pointed out as being here or there. Yet
his historical existence45 can be known by pointing out the
body of the doctrine46 preached by him.”
—}{—
45.As well as the existence of more Buddhas in the future.
46. Dhammakàya.
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 5
The Buddha
1.“Have you or your teachers seen the
Buddha?”
“No, great king.”
“Then, Nàgasena, there is no Buddha!”
“Have you or your father seen the River
æhà40 in the Himalayas?”
“No venerable sir.”
“Then would it be right to say there is no river æhà?”
“You are dexterous, Nàgasena, in reply.”
2.“Is the Buddha incomparable?”
“Yes he is.”
“But how can you know if you have never seen him?”
“Just as those who have never seen the ocean can
know how great it is because the five great rivers flow into
it but thereby it does not rise; so do I know that the Buddha
is incomparable when I think of those great teachers, whom
I have seen, who are only his disciples.”
3.“How can others know that the Buddha is incompar-
able?”
“Long ago there was a master of writing named Tissa
Thera.
41
How can people know about him?”
40.The source of the Ganges.
41.Possibly a reference to Moggalliputta Tissa Thera, the convenor of the Third Council
and author of the Kathàvatthu, ‘Points of Controversy
“By his writing.”
“Just so, O king, whosoever the sees the Dhamma
taught by Blessed One can know that he is incomparable.”
4.“Have you, Nàgasena, seen what the truth is?”
“We disciples, O king, have to conduct ourselves
according to the rules laid down by the Buddha.”42
5.“Can there be any rebirth where there is no trans-
migration?”
“Yes there can, just as a man can light one oil-lamp
from another but nothing moves from one lamp to the
other; or as a pupil can learn a verse by heart from a teacher
but the verse does not transmigrate from teacher to pupil.”
6.Then Milinda asked again, “Is there such a thing as
‘The one who knows’, (vedagå)?”
“Not in the ultimate sense.”43
7.“Is there any being who transmigrates from this body
to another?”
“No there is not.”
“If so, would there not be an escape from the result of
evil deeds?”
“Yes there would be an escape if they were not to be
reborn but there would not be if they were to be reborn.
42.There is a training rule (Pàcittiya No. 8) preventing monks from disclosing any spiritual
attainments.
43.There are two levels of truth; conventional truth and ultimate truth. In the conventional
sense it would be wrong to say that a person does not exist; but in the ultimate sense it
is right. In reality there is only a continuously changing stream of mind and matter,
which we mistake for a person. (Editor’s Note)
This mind and body process commits deeds either pure or
impure, and because of that kamma another mind and body
process is reborn. Therefore this mind and body is not free
from its evil deeds.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If a thief were to steal another man’s mangoes,
would he deserve punishment?”
“Indeed he would.”
“But the mangoes he stole were not those that the
owner had planted; why should he deserve punishment?”
“Because those that he stole resulted from the others.”
“Just so, O king, this mind and body process commits
deeds either pure or impure, and because of that kamma
another mind and body process is reborn. Therefore this
mind and body is not free from its evil deeds.”
8.“When deeds are committed by one mind and body
process, where do they remain?”
“The deeds follow them, O king, like a shadow that
never leaves. However, one cannot point them out saying,
‘Those deeds are here or there’, just as the fruits of a tree
cannot be pointed out before they are produced.”
9.“Would he who is about to be reborn know it?”
“Yes he would, just as a farmer who puts seed into the
ground, seeing it rain well, would know that a crop will be
produced.”44
10.“Is there such a person as the Buddha?”
44. cf. Question 2 in Chapter Two.
“Yes.”
“Can he be pointed out as being here or there?”
“The Blessed One has passed away and nothing
remains to form another individual. He cannot be pointed
out as being here or there just as the flame of a fire that has
gone out cannot be pointed out as being here or there. Yet
his historical existence45 can be known by pointing out the
body of the doctrine46 preached by him.”
—}{—
45.As well as the existence of more Buddhas in the future.
46. Dhammakàya.
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - Sense Bases
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - Sense Bases
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 4
Sense Bases
1.“What is the root, “Are the five sense
bases produced from various kammas, or
all from one?” “From various kammas, O
king.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If you were to sow five kinds of seeds in a
field the produce would be of five kinds.”
2.“Why is it, Nàgasena, that all men are not alike; some
are short-lived and some long-lived, some sickly and some
healthy, some ugly and some handsome, some powerful
and some powerless, some poor and some rich, some low-
born and some noble, some foolish and some wise?”
“Why is it that all plants are not alike?”
“Because they come from different seeds.”
“Just so, O king, it is because of the variety of kammas
that beings are not all the same. For this was said by the
Blessed One, ‘All beings have kamma as their own property,
are heirs to it, born from it, are relatives of their kamma and
have kamma as their refuge; whatever kamma they do
divides them into high and low states’.”38
38.M. iii. 203. cf. A. v. 87, 288.
3.“You said that your going forth was so that this
suffering might be extinguished and no further suffering
arise. Is it brought about by previous effort, or to be striven
after now, in the present?”
“Effort now is concerned with what remains to be
done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Is it when the enemy is arrayed against you that you
set to work to have a moat dug, a rampart raised, a watch-
tower built, a stronghold constructed and stores collected?”
“Certainly not your reverence.”
“Just so, effort now is concerned with what remains to
be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.”
4.“You say that the fire of purgatory would instantly
destroy a boulder the size of a house; but you also say that
whatever beings are reborn in hell, though they burn for
hundreds of thousands of years they are not destroyed.
How can I believe this?”
“Although the food, bones and even stones eaten by
various female beings are destroyed inside their abdomens
yet their embryos are not destroyed. Just so those beings in
hell avoid destruction by the influence of their kamma. “
5.“You say that the world rests on water, the water on
air and the air on space. This too I cannot believe.”
Then the elder showed the king water in a regulation
water-filter supported by atmospheric pressure and the
king was convinced.
6.“Is cessation nibbàna?”
“Yes, O king. All foolish worldlings take pleasure in
the senses and their objects; they find delight in them and
cling to them. Hence they are carried down by the flood [of
passion] and are not released from birth and suffering.
However, the wise disciple of the noble ones does not
delight in those things. So craving ceases in him. Thence,
attachment ceases, becoming ceases, birth ceases, old age,
death, grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow and despair cease to
exist. Thus it is that cessation is nibbàna.”
7.“Does everyone attain nibbàna?”
“Not all, O king; but whoever conducts himself
rightly, understands what should be understood, perceives
what should be perceived, abandons what should be
abandoned, develops what should be developed and
realises what should be realised;
39 he attains nibbàna.”
8.“Can one who has not attained nibbàna know that it is
blissful?”
“Yes indeed, O king. As those who have not had their
hands and feet cut off can know how painful a condition it
is by the cries of those who have; so can those who have not
attained nibbàna know it is blissful by hearing the joyful
words of those who have attained it.”
—}{—
39.Understands the truth of suffering, perceives impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and
not-self, abandons craving, and realises nibbàna.
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 4
Sense Bases
1.“What is the root, “Are the five sense
bases produced from various kammas, or
all from one?” “From various kammas, O
king.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If you were to sow five kinds of seeds in a
field the produce would be of five kinds.”
2.“Why is it, Nàgasena, that all men are not alike; some
are short-lived and some long-lived, some sickly and some
healthy, some ugly and some handsome, some powerful
and some powerless, some poor and some rich, some low-
born and some noble, some foolish and some wise?”
“Why is it that all plants are not alike?”
“Because they come from different seeds.”
“Just so, O king, it is because of the variety of kammas
that beings are not all the same. For this was said by the
Blessed One, ‘All beings have kamma as their own property,
are heirs to it, born from it, are relatives of their kamma and
have kamma as their refuge; whatever kamma they do
divides them into high and low states’.”38
38.M. iii. 203. cf. A. v. 87, 288.
3.“You said that your going forth was so that this
suffering might be extinguished and no further suffering
arise. Is it brought about by previous effort, or to be striven
after now, in the present?”
“Effort now is concerned with what remains to be
done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Is it when the enemy is arrayed against you that you
set to work to have a moat dug, a rampart raised, a watch-
tower built, a stronghold constructed and stores collected?”
“Certainly not your reverence.”
“Just so, effort now is concerned with what remains to
be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.”
4.“You say that the fire of purgatory would instantly
destroy a boulder the size of a house; but you also say that
whatever beings are reborn in hell, though they burn for
hundreds of thousands of years they are not destroyed.
How can I believe this?”
“Although the food, bones and even stones eaten by
various female beings are destroyed inside their abdomens
yet their embryos are not destroyed. Just so those beings in
hell avoid destruction by the influence of their kamma. “
5.“You say that the world rests on water, the water on
air and the air on space. This too I cannot believe.”
Then the elder showed the king water in a regulation
water-filter supported by atmospheric pressure and the
king was convinced.
6.“Is cessation nibbàna?”
“Yes, O king. All foolish worldlings take pleasure in
the senses and their objects; they find delight in them and
cling to them. Hence they are carried down by the flood [of
passion] and are not released from birth and suffering.
However, the wise disciple of the noble ones does not
delight in those things. So craving ceases in him. Thence,
attachment ceases, becoming ceases, birth ceases, old age,
death, grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow and despair cease to
exist. Thus it is that cessation is nibbàna.”
7.“Does everyone attain nibbàna?”
“Not all, O king; but whoever conducts himself
rightly, understands what should be understood, perceives
what should be perceived, abandons what should be
abandoned, develops what should be developed and
realises what should be realised;
39 he attains nibbàna.”
8.“Can one who has not attained nibbàna know that it is
blissful?”
“Yes indeed, O king. As those who have not had their
hands and feet cut off can know how painful a condition it
is by the cries of those who have; so can those who have not
attained nibbàna know it is blissful by hearing the joyful
words of those who have attained it.”
—}{—
39.Understands the truth of suffering, perceives impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and
not-self, abandons craving, and realises nibbàna.
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Beginning of Time
Khuddaka Nikaya - Milinda Panha - The Beginning of Time
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 3
The Beginning of Time
1.“What is the root, Nàgasena, of past,
present and future time?”
“Ignorance. By ignorance are conditioned
formations; by formations, relinking con-
sciousness; by consciousness, mind and
matter; by mind and matter, the six sense bases; by the six
sense bases, contact; by contact, feeling; by feeling, craving;
by craving, attachment; by attachment, becoming; by
becoming, birth; by birth are conditioned old age, death,
grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow and despair.”
2.“You say that the ultimate beginning of things is not
apparent. Give me an illustration.”
“The Blessed One said, ‘By reason of the sense bases
and the sense objects there arises contact; by reason of
contact, feeling; by reason of feeling, craving; and by reason
of craving, action (kamma). Then, from action, sense bases
are once more produced.’ Now could there be any end to
this series?”
“No.”
“Just so, O king, the ultimate beginning of things
cannot be comprehended.”35
35.To search for the origins of life in Super Novae or in DNA is to search in vain, for the root
cause lies in the mind. The Buddha said:
“For countless births I wandered in saüsàra, seeking, but not finding the builder of this
house. Painful is repeated birth! House builder you are seen! You shall build no house
again! All your rafters [defilements] are broken! Your ridge-pole [ignorance] is shattered!
My mind has gone to nibbàna. Achieved is the end of craving.” Dhammapada vv153–4.
3.“Is the ultimate beginning of everything unknown?”
“Partly so and partly not.”
“Then which is so and which not?”
“Whatever condition preceded this birth, that is to us
as if it had not been. In reference to that, the ultimate begin-
ning is not known. However, that which has not been
comes into existence, and as soon as it has arisen it disap-
pears again. With reference to that the ultimate beginning
can be known.”
4.“Are there any formations that are produced?”
“Certainly, O king. Where there is an eye and also
forms there is sight; where there is sight there is contact;
where there is contact there is feeling; where there is feeling
there is craving; where there is craving there is attachment;
where there is attachment there is becoming; where there is
becoming there is birth, old age, death, grief, lamentation,
pain, sorrow and despair. However, where the eye and
forms are not, sight is not; contact is not, feeling is not,
craving is not, attachment is not, becoming is not; and
where there is no becoming there is no birth, old age, death,
grief, pain, sorrow or despair.”
5.“Are there any formations that are not produced?”
“There are not, O king, for it is just by a process of
becoming that they are produced.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Was this house where you are sitting produced by a
process of becoming?”
“There is nothing here that was not. This wood was in
the forest and this clay was in the ground and it was
through the effort of men and women that this house came
to exist.”
“Just so, O king there are no formations that are not
produced.”
6.“Is there, Nàgasena, such a thing as ‘The one who
knows’ (vedagå)?”36
“What is this thing?”
“The living principle within that sees, hears, tastes,
smells, feels and discerns things; just as we, sitting here, can
look out of any window we wish to.”
“If, O king, the living principle within can see, hear,
taste, smell and feel things like you say, can it not also see
forms through the ear and so on?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“Then, O king, the living principle within cannot
make use of whichever sense it pleases as you suggested. It
is, O king, by reason of the eye and forms that sight and
those other conditions arise, namely; contact, feeling, per-
ception, intention, one pointedness, vitality and attention.
Each arises simultaneously with its cause and herein ‘The
one who knows’ cannot be found.”
7.“Does mind-consciousness arise wherever eye-
consciousness arises?”
“Yes, O king, where the one is there the other is.”
“Which arises first?”
36.Elsewhere vedagå is used as an epithet of the Buddha meaning ‘One attained to
knowledge’.
“First eye-consciousness then mind-consciousness.”
“Does eye-consciousness issue a command to mind
consciousness or vice versa?”
“No, there is no communication between them.”
“Then why is it, Nàgasena, that mind-consciousness
arises wherever there is eye-consciousness?”
“Because, O king, there is a tendency, an opening, a
habit and an association.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If a king’s border town had a strong wall and only
one gateway and a man wanted to leave the town, which
way would he go?”
“Through the gateway.”
“And if another man left, which way would he go?”
“Through the same gateway.”
“But does the first man issue a command to the
second saying, ‘Go out the same way as I do’, or does the
second man tell the first, ‘I will go out the same way as you
do’?”
“No venerable sir, there is no communication
between them.”
“In the same way mind-consciousness arises wherever
there is eye-consciousness but there is no communication
between them.”
8.“Where there is mind-consciousness, Nàgasena, is
there always contact and feeling?”
“Yes, where there is mind-consciousness there is
contact and feeling. And also perception, intention, initial
application and sustained application.”
“What is the characteristic mark of contact?”
“Touching.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As when two rams butt together; the eye is like one
ram, visible object is like the other and the butting together
of the two is contact.”
9.“What is the characteristic mark of feeling?”
“The being experienced, O king, and enjoyed.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a man, who has been of service to a king and has
been granted an official post, afterwards enjoys the benefits
of being in office.”
10.“What is the characteristic mark of perception?”
“Recognising,
37 O king, of blueness, yellowness or
redness.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“It is as the king’s treasurer recognises the king’s
goods on seeing their colour and shape.”
11.“What is the characteristic mark of intention?”
“Conceiving, O king, and preparing.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a man having prepared poison and having drunk
it would suffer pain, so one having thought out some evil
deed and having done it, afterwards has to suffer in hell.”
37. Sa¤¤à, vi¤¤àõa and pa¤¤à can be compared respectively to a child, a man and a money-
changer who see a gold coin. The child knows it is round and bright but that is all. The
man knows that it has a value too. The money-changer knows everything about it. See
Vism. 437.
12.“What is the characteristic mark of consciousness?”
“Knowing, O king.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a watchman in the city square would know some-
one was coming, whichever direction he came from; so,
when a man sees an object, hears a sound, smells an odour,
tastes a savour, feels a touch or knows an idea; it is by con-
sciousness that he knows it.”
13.“What is the characteristic mark of initial
application?”
“Fixing, O king.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a carpenter fixes an accurately cut tenon into a
mortice, thus fixing is the characteristic of initial
application.”
14.“What is the characteristic mark of sustained
application?”
“Examining again and again.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Like the striking of a gong is initial application; like
the reverberation is sustained application.”
15.“Is it possible to separate these conditions; saying,
‘This is contact, this feeling, this perception, this intention,
this consciousness, this initial application, and this
sustained application’?”
“No, great king, this cannot be done. If one were to
prepare a soup containing curds, salt, ginger, cumin seeds
and pepper, one could not take out the flavour of the curds
and show it saying, ‘This is the flavour of the curds’ or take
out the flavour of the salt and say, ‘This is the flavour of the
salt’, yet each flavour would be distinctly present by its
characteristic sign.”
16.Then the elder said, “Is salt, O king, recognisable by
the eye?”
“Yes, your reverence, it is.”
“Be careful, O king, what you say.”
“Then it is recognisable by the tongue.”
“Yes, that is right.”
“But, Nàgasena, is it only by the tongue that every
kind of salt is recognisable?”
“Yes, every kind.”
“Then why do bullocks bring whole cartloads of it?”
“It is impossible to bring salt by itself. For example,
salt also has mass but it is impossible to weigh salt, one can
only weigh the mass.”
“You are dexterous, Nàgasena, in argument.”
The Debate of King Milinda
edited by Bhikkhu Pesala
Chapter 3
The Beginning of Time
1.“What is the root, Nàgasena, of past,
present and future time?”
“Ignorance. By ignorance are conditioned
formations; by formations, relinking con-
sciousness; by consciousness, mind and
matter; by mind and matter, the six sense bases; by the six
sense bases, contact; by contact, feeling; by feeling, craving;
by craving, attachment; by attachment, becoming; by
becoming, birth; by birth are conditioned old age, death,
grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow and despair.”
2.“You say that the ultimate beginning of things is not
apparent. Give me an illustration.”
“The Blessed One said, ‘By reason of the sense bases
and the sense objects there arises contact; by reason of
contact, feeling; by reason of feeling, craving; and by reason
of craving, action (kamma). Then, from action, sense bases
are once more produced.’ Now could there be any end to
this series?”
“No.”
“Just so, O king, the ultimate beginning of things
cannot be comprehended.”35
35.To search for the origins of life in Super Novae or in DNA is to search in vain, for the root
cause lies in the mind. The Buddha said:
“For countless births I wandered in saüsàra, seeking, but not finding the builder of this
house. Painful is repeated birth! House builder you are seen! You shall build no house
again! All your rafters [defilements] are broken! Your ridge-pole [ignorance] is shattered!
My mind has gone to nibbàna. Achieved is the end of craving.” Dhammapada vv153–4.
3.“Is the ultimate beginning of everything unknown?”
“Partly so and partly not.”
“Then which is so and which not?”
“Whatever condition preceded this birth, that is to us
as if it had not been. In reference to that, the ultimate begin-
ning is not known. However, that which has not been
comes into existence, and as soon as it has arisen it disap-
pears again. With reference to that the ultimate beginning
can be known.”
4.“Are there any formations that are produced?”
“Certainly, O king. Where there is an eye and also
forms there is sight; where there is sight there is contact;
where there is contact there is feeling; where there is feeling
there is craving; where there is craving there is attachment;
where there is attachment there is becoming; where there is
becoming there is birth, old age, death, grief, lamentation,
pain, sorrow and despair. However, where the eye and
forms are not, sight is not; contact is not, feeling is not,
craving is not, attachment is not, becoming is not; and
where there is no becoming there is no birth, old age, death,
grief, pain, sorrow or despair.”
5.“Are there any formations that are not produced?”
“There are not, O king, for it is just by a process of
becoming that they are produced.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Was this house where you are sitting produced by a
process of becoming?”
“There is nothing here that was not. This wood was in
the forest and this clay was in the ground and it was
through the effort of men and women that this house came
to exist.”
“Just so, O king there are no formations that are not
produced.”
6.“Is there, Nàgasena, such a thing as ‘The one who
knows’ (vedagå)?”36
“What is this thing?”
“The living principle within that sees, hears, tastes,
smells, feels and discerns things; just as we, sitting here, can
look out of any window we wish to.”
“If, O king, the living principle within can see, hear,
taste, smell and feel things like you say, can it not also see
forms through the ear and so on?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“Then, O king, the living principle within cannot
make use of whichever sense it pleases as you suggested. It
is, O king, by reason of the eye and forms that sight and
those other conditions arise, namely; contact, feeling, per-
ception, intention, one pointedness, vitality and attention.
Each arises simultaneously with its cause and herein ‘The
one who knows’ cannot be found.”
7.“Does mind-consciousness arise wherever eye-
consciousness arises?”
“Yes, O king, where the one is there the other is.”
“Which arises first?”
36.Elsewhere vedagå is used as an epithet of the Buddha meaning ‘One attained to
knowledge’.
“First eye-consciousness then mind-consciousness.”
“Does eye-consciousness issue a command to mind
consciousness or vice versa?”
“No, there is no communication between them.”
“Then why is it, Nàgasena, that mind-consciousness
arises wherever there is eye-consciousness?”
“Because, O king, there is a tendency, an opening, a
habit and an association.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“If a king’s border town had a strong wall and only
one gateway and a man wanted to leave the town, which
way would he go?”
“Through the gateway.”
“And if another man left, which way would he go?”
“Through the same gateway.”
“But does the first man issue a command to the
second saying, ‘Go out the same way as I do’, or does the
second man tell the first, ‘I will go out the same way as you
do’?”
“No venerable sir, there is no communication
between them.”
“In the same way mind-consciousness arises wherever
there is eye-consciousness but there is no communication
between them.”
8.“Where there is mind-consciousness, Nàgasena, is
there always contact and feeling?”
“Yes, where there is mind-consciousness there is
contact and feeling. And also perception, intention, initial
application and sustained application.”
“What is the characteristic mark of contact?”
“Touching.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As when two rams butt together; the eye is like one
ram, visible object is like the other and the butting together
of the two is contact.”
9.“What is the characteristic mark of feeling?”
“The being experienced, O king, and enjoyed.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a man, who has been of service to a king and has
been granted an official post, afterwards enjoys the benefits
of being in office.”
10.“What is the characteristic mark of perception?”
“Recognising,
37 O king, of blueness, yellowness or
redness.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“It is as the king’s treasurer recognises the king’s
goods on seeing their colour and shape.”
11.“What is the characteristic mark of intention?”
“Conceiving, O king, and preparing.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a man having prepared poison and having drunk
it would suffer pain, so one having thought out some evil
deed and having done it, afterwards has to suffer in hell.”
37. Sa¤¤à, vi¤¤àõa and pa¤¤à can be compared respectively to a child, a man and a money-
changer who see a gold coin. The child knows it is round and bright but that is all. The
man knows that it has a value too. The money-changer knows everything about it. See
Vism. 437.
12.“What is the characteristic mark of consciousness?”
“Knowing, O king.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a watchman in the city square would know some-
one was coming, whichever direction he came from; so,
when a man sees an object, hears a sound, smells an odour,
tastes a savour, feels a touch or knows an idea; it is by con-
sciousness that he knows it.”
13.“What is the characteristic mark of initial
application?”
“Fixing, O king.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“As a carpenter fixes an accurately cut tenon into a
mortice, thus fixing is the characteristic of initial
application.”
14.“What is the characteristic mark of sustained
application?”
“Examining again and again.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“Like the striking of a gong is initial application; like
the reverberation is sustained application.”
15.“Is it possible to separate these conditions; saying,
‘This is contact, this feeling, this perception, this intention,
this consciousness, this initial application, and this
sustained application’?”
“No, great king, this cannot be done. If one were to
prepare a soup containing curds, salt, ginger, cumin seeds
and pepper, one could not take out the flavour of the curds
and show it saying, ‘This is the flavour of the curds’ or take
out the flavour of the salt and say, ‘This is the flavour of the
salt’, yet each flavour would be distinctly present by its
characteristic sign.”
16.Then the elder said, “Is salt, O king, recognisable by
the eye?”
“Yes, your reverence, it is.”
“Be careful, O king, what you say.”
“Then it is recognisable by the tongue.”
“Yes, that is right.”
“But, Nàgasena, is it only by the tongue that every
kind of salt is recognisable?”
“Yes, every kind.”
“Then why do bullocks bring whole cartloads of it?”
“It is impossible to bring salt by itself. For example,
salt also has mass but it is impossible to weigh salt, one can
only weigh the mass.”
“You are dexterous, Nàgasena, in argument.”
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