Points of Controversy
OR
Subjects of Discourse
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA
BY
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A
AND
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
7. Of Desire as inherent in Heavenly Things.
Controverted Point.—That lust lor the things of the Rupa
heavens is inherent to and included therein.
From the Commentary.—Just as sensuous lusts are inherent in the
world of sense-experience, and are said to be included in it, the lust
for life in the Rupa heavens and the Arupa heavens was held, by the
Andhakas and the Sarnmitiyas, to be as stated.
[1] Th.—You imply that the desire which seeks attain-
ment in Jhana, the desire which seeks rebirth in the
heavens, and the delighting, under present conditions, in
celestial bliss,1 are all three concomitant, coexistent, asso-
ciated and conjoined with their respective kinds of con-
sciousness, are one in genesis and cessation, one in seat
and object with those kinds. If you deny your proposition
falls.
[2] Is a desire for sound inherent and included in the
sphere of sound, or is a desire for the other objects of sense
inherent and included in their respective spheres ? Why
not affirm here instead of denying ? If the desires are to
be denied here, neither can you affirm them in the case of
the heavens.2
[3-4] The same arguments apply to the desire for the
things of the Arupa heavens.
[5] A.S.—But if you admit that we may speak of
sensuous lusts as inherent and included in the world of
sense-experience, it is surely right to affirm analogous
desires in the case of the Rupa and Arupa heavens.3
1
According to the Commentary these three terms refer respectively
to moral (kusala) consciousness, resultant (vipaka) consciousness,
and inoperative (kriya) consciousness—-five modes in each of the
three—on the Rupa plane. Cf. Compendium, Part I., 2, §§ 8, 9.
2
For the point in this argument see XVI. 10, § 2.
3
The orthodox position is that such desires are inherent in and
confined to the world (earth, purgatory, lower heavens) of sense-
experience (Kamaloka).
8. Of the Unmoral and the Unrepealed,
Controverted Point.—That error is unmoral.
From the Commentary.—As to the term a-vy-a-kata , literally
'undeclared,' applied to the four categories : result-in-conscious-
ness1 (vipaka) , inoperative consciousness1 (kiriya) , matter and
Nibbana, it means 'cannot be declared to be either moral or unmoral,
because of the absence of moral [or karmic] result-in-consciousness'
(avipakatta) . Applied to speculative opinion on unproveable
matters, it means undeclared (akathitatta).2 Now some, like the
Andhakas and Uttarapathakas, making no such distinction, speak of
erroneous views as unmoral in their result [itself a very erroneous view].
[1] Th.—Then you must be prepared to class it as one
of the unmoral categories—result, inoperative conscious-
ness, matter, Nibbana, organ and object of sense3—which
you may not do. You must also be prepared to admit
that other mental factors, the conscious processes or
acts accompanying erroneous opinion, are unmoral. Else
you have this anomaly : that all these together constitute
a state of immoral consciousness, while the erroneous
opinion alone is unmoral.4
[2] Again, the unmoral has no moral fruit or result,
while erroneous opinion is of the opposite nature. Nay,
were not evil views ranked as paramount offences by the
Exalted One?5 [3] Did he not say : 'Wrong views,
Vaccha, are immoral, right views are moral'?6 And did he
not say also: ' For the holder of wrong views, Punna, I
declare one of tioo destinies, either purgatory or the animal
world'?7
1
See above, XII. 2,3.
2
A Christian would say 'unrevealed.'
3
See above, XI. 1, XIII. 9.
4
Ditthi-gata, or wrong views, is a factor in akusala-
cittang , bad consciousness (Bud. Psy. Eth., pp. 98-101). The idea
here seems to be: How can a part be amoral , while the whole is
immoral"?
5
We cannot trace this phrase verbatim. The Br. translator reads,
for paramani (paramount), pamanani, 'as their measure.'
6
Majjhima-Nik., i. 490.
7
Cf. ibid,, i. 388; Samyutta-Nik., iv. 307.
[4] A.U.—But did not the Exalted One say: 'This,
Vaccha, is unsolved (avyakata):—that the ivorld is eternal,
or that it is not eternal. This, too, is unsolved (avyakata)—
that the world is finite, or that it is infinite. And so, too, are
these : that the soul and the body are the same, or are different
things ; that a Tathagata comes to be after death, or not, or
both comes to be and does not come to be, or that neither
happens'?1
Surely then erroneous opinions are unmoral.
[5] Th.—But was it not said by the Exalted One:
' Of a person holding wrong views, bhikkhus, whatever karma
of deed, word and thought he completes and carries out in
accordance ivith those views, be it volition, aspiration, adjust-
ment of mind, or other activities, all those things conduce
to the undesirable, to the unpleasant, to the disagreeable, to
trouble, to ill '? 2
Hence it is surely wrong to say that ' erroneous opinions
are unmoral.'
9. Of the Unincluded.
Controverted Point.—That erroneous opinions [may enter
into] 'the Unincluded.'3
From the Commentary.—Inasmuch as when a man of the world
has attained to Jhana, he may be called passionless as to sense-
desires, but not free from erroneous opinions, some, like the Pubba-
seliyas, hold that erroneous views beset also that other consciousness
which is ' Unincluded.'
1
Samyutta-Nik., iv. 393, 401 (neither is quite verbatim as the text).
2
Anguttara-Nik., v. 212.
3
The opponent would break down the exclusive content of the
term a-pariyapanna—the Unincluded—which, according to the
Abhidhamma-Pitaka, is reserved for the consciousness and conscious
experiences of those qualifying in the Path, and for Nibbana
(Dhamma-sangani [Bud. Psy. Eth.], §§ 992, 1287). Such conscious-
ness would not be shared by a 'man of the world' or ' average person'
(puthujjana, literally, one of the many-folk, or hoi polloi).
It is 'not included' in the mental range of one whose interests
are confined to any sphere of life earth or in heaven.
[1] Th.—Then you must be prepared to class them
among the category of the ' Unincluded,' to wit, as Path,
Fruit, Nibbana, as one of the Four Paths, or Four Fruits,
-as one of the Factors of Enlightenment—which you may
not do.
[2] P.—But if I am wrong, why do you admit that a
worldly person [in Jhana] may be called passionless as to
sense-desires, but deny: that he has lost all erroneous
opinion ?
Surely then it is right to say that erroneous opinion
may enter into 'the Unincluded.'
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