Maha Buddhavamsa - Story of Nomad Recluse Saccaka

Maha Buddhavamsa
The Great Chronicle of The Buddhas
by Tipitakadhara Mingun Sayadaw

Story of Nomad Recluse Saccaka

As previously described, the four women ascetic
has a brother named Saccaka, a nomad
ascetic, whose a teacher of the Vesali princes.
That time is when the Tathagata was dwelling in the vihara Kutagara
in Mahavana Forest near Vesali, when the wanderer ascetic
Saccaka, son of the leader Nigantha doctrine claims to be
the argue expert, a highly educated, and those
think of him as a saint. He boasted to
Vesali residents.

"I've never met anyone who claimed to be
monks, doctrine members, doctrine leader, a Samana,
Brahmin or a people decent given the respect, the Buddha
achieve Perfect Enlightenment, which can survive without
sweat from his armpits when I was denied and
denounce their views and even the wooden blocks are not able to
remain silent when I talk about things related
with a spiritual views, especially living things! "
Nomad Saccaka, indeed, around the city and boasting as
one who will find handicap in Samana Gotama.
One morning, when he was walking around while exercise,
He saw from far Venerable Assaji being collected
alms. He thought:
"I am the one, who had been planning on how
the method to deny Samana Gotama teachings though I have not
opportunity to do so, because I do not know
His view. I have tried to find out his views
before I challenged him. Venerable Assaji has mastered
view of Samana Gotama and I'll make it so
he revealed teachings before I can find a flaw
in Gotama and denounce him. "
He approached Venerable Assaji, and converse with him


after exchanged courtesies, "O Assaji ... How Samana
Gotama advises his students? In how many ways he
giving instructions to his students? "
Venerable Assaji explained as follows:
"O Aggivessana descendant, Nomad Saccaka, Tathagata
advised his students in the following manner. He gave
detailed instruction in a variety of ways:
"Bhikkhus, of the flesh (Rupa) is impermanent, feeling
is impermanent, perception is impermanent, formations
 of the mind are impermanent, six groups of consciousness
is not eternal. Physical body is not me, feeling is not me,
perception is not me, mind formations are not me,
six groups of consciousness is not me (atta). All the conditioned
not eternal; all Dhamma is not me (no-self).
O descendant of Aggivessana, Nomad Saccaka. Tathagata
advised his students this way. He gave
detailed instruction in a variety of ways. "
The above explanation is an answer of Venerable Assaji to the question
of the adherents of wrong view, Saccaka.
(The important thing to note: From the statement that
constitute an answer to the Saccaka question, Venerable Assaji
mentioning 'not eternal' and 'not me' or no-
self, but not mention about 'suffering.' Reason of
not mention of suffering according to comments are as
the following:
"If Venerable Assaji mention about suffering,
physical body is suffering, feeling is suffering,
perception is suffering, mind formations are
suffering, six groups of consciousness is suffering,
Saccaka will have the opportunity to rebut. Because, in
figurative language, including the road and the fruit is also suffering


(Sankhara dukkha), because of that, suffering is not mentioned; If
mentioned, Saccaka will ask again, "O Assaji what is your goal
by receive ordination? "and Venerable Assaji will answer,
"By the Way and the fruits." And this opportunity will be utilized
by Saccaka by saying, "O Assaji... your Sasana actually
not lead to liberation, even the fact, that
you call the Sasana is a kind of woe, Ussada! By
Therefore, your mind does not have an appetite for excitement;
actually, you all just wander and seek
in pursuit of suffering anxiety. "For this reason
Venerable Assaji avoid the term figuratively (pariyàya) and
use of abstract terms (nippriyàya) which can mean other things,
Thus he mentions the impermanence (anicca) and not
me or no-self (anatta).
Furthermore, Saccaka said, "O Assaji, how odd that I heard
this: I have heard what I was taught by Master Gotama;
maybe I can meet Gotama the Honorable and discuss
with Him. Maybe I can obliterate His wrong
view. "
At that time, five hundred Licchavi princes are gathered
in the fellowship hall to do some business. Saccaka
thought, "Before I was not able to criticize the views
Samana Gotama because I do not know anything about
his view. Now I already knew from his student
Assaji; I really understand it; I should come to Him
and denounced his views.
First he went to the hall where five hundred
Licchavi princes were having a meeting. He called them
to get out of the room, shouting:
"Come, the respected Licchavis. Come, the
Licchavi that respectable. Today there will be discussions between Samana
Gotama and I about his views; this will be
a great show! One of five monks and students whose
famous from the Samana Gotama, firmly adheres to the view


of impermanence and no-self, whether Samana Gotama also
adopt the same view, anicca and anatta.
(1) Just as a strong grip the hairs of sheep
that long, will be able to pull and push
with as he pleased, so I will pull and
push Samana Gotama as I please with the argument
and my defiance upon his view.
(2) Just as a strong woman who worked in the liquor
shop, which is capable of throwing a mat to
middle of the lake can grip the corner and pull,
push and shake it, in such manner,
I'll pull, push and shake
 the Samana Gotama with the arguments and
my defiance upon his view.
(3) Just as an alcoholic strength, that
shake the sieve and threw his drink by
holding the edges, so I will
shake and toss Samana Gotama with
 arguments and my defiance about his view.
(4) Just as an elephant, which began to weaken at the age of sixty,
will fall into a deep pool and play games
wash hemp, so I'll play with the Samana
Gotama like playing games the wash hemp with
arguments and my defiance about his view.
(Note: When the flax stalks are processed to be
made fibers, rods will be tied up then dipped
into the water to become soft. After three days when the
stalks have become soft and pliant, the workers will come
while carrying supplies of food and beverages, to
enjoyed when the work is completed. They gripped the bond
of stalks and struck it out loud on-boards
 placed on the right side, left and front of them, while
enjoying food and drinks.


Royal elephants, imitating the act of jute workers, go to
a deep pool and suck up the water with his trunk, then
spray into his head, back, and both sides
body, also in between her legs. Thus the term there
dhovika (wash hemp game).
"O Licchavi princes, come, come. This day will
ongoing debate between me and the Samana Gotama about
his view. This will be a great show! "Thus
Saccaka invited his students.
Among the Licchavi princes, there are (1) Those who
have opinion that 'Samana Gotama would not be able to
denied Saccaka view, while Saccaka will be able to
denies Samana Gotama's view. And (2) Those who
says: man like what that Saccaka so as to
 denied Buddha; only Bhagava who can argue with
Saccaka. '
Saccaka then traveled to the vihara Kutagara
accompanied by two hundred Licchavi princes. When it is noon
day and many monks were walking to and fro for
eliminate idleness and torpor after a full meal.
(In other words, the monks were usually walked to and fro
while basking in the afternoon and then a shower; they feel
Such practice helps to develop their
concentration in meditation).
Saccaka approached the monk and asked, "Friend,
Where's the Lord Gotama today? We want to see-
Him. "
In the early days, the Tathagata, through Mahakaruna samapatti
observing ten thousand universes and see with
His omniscience, that next day Saccaka will
come together many Licchavi princes to debate
his view. Therefore He shower early morning


then went to collect alms accompanied by
the monks. Back from the collecting alms, he's
not go into his room, but continued walking toward
Mahavana woods and sit in the shade of a tree to
comfort His guests, led by the adherents
of wrong view Saccaka.
The monks who were asked by Saccaka were the monks
practicing meditation, who had just returned from the Tathagata place. They,
by clasped hand point Tathagata place, and
said, "O Saccaka, Tathagata spent his days under a tree
in Mahavana Forest. "
Then Saccaka go to the Forest Mahavana, accompanied by many
people. He approached the Tathagata, and having exchanged courtesies
with Tathagata, he sat in the proper place. (In addition to five
hundred Licchavi princes who were his students, also participated
Vesali residents who want to see the debate between
the two leading individual).
Those who accompany Saccaka can be divided into five groups:
(1) Some people pay homage to the Tathagata, then
sitting in the proper place, (2) Some people together
greeted with the Tathagata, saying the words that will
always remember their lifetime and then sat on the
necessary, (3) Some people prostrate to the Tathagata
then sit in the proper place, (4) Some people
introduced the name and pedigrees then sit in their
the proper place, and (5) Some people just sit
silent.
After sitting in the proper place, Saccaka said to
the Tathagata, "May I, with Thy permission, apply
questions about a particular topic? Tathagata replied, "Ask
Aggivessana, whatever you like "(This is the kind invitation
of question, especially for the Buddha who have attained
Perfect Enlightenment, above of the Pacceka Buddha and
Sàvaka).


Saccaka start with his question, "O Gotama His Excellency,
How do You advise Your students to be? Which part
from Thy teachings that most emphasized to Your students? "
Tathagata replied:
"O Aggivessana descendant, Nomad Saccaka, I advise
My students in the following manner. This section from many of My
teaching that most emphasized to my students. "
"Bhikkhus, the flesh (Rupa) is impermanent, feeling
is impermanent, perception is impermanent, formations
 of the mind are impermanent, six groups of consciousness
is not eternal. Physical body is not me, feeling is not me,
perception is not me, mind formations are not me,
six groups of consciousness is not me (atta). All the conditioned
is impermanent, all conditioned and unconditioned (Dhamma)
was not me (no-self (anatta)).
"O Aggivessana descendant, Nomad Saccaka, so
I advise my students in the following manner. This section
from many of my teaching is the most emphasized to My-
students.
Saccaka said, "I remember of a parable." Tathagata
then said. "O Aggivessana descendant. State it
(With firm and clear). "
"Like a seed and plants can not live without
depending on the soil, or as workers who can not
doing their duties without standing on the ground. O Gotama
Your Excellency, as well, all the creatures do
good or evil depending on the physical body (which
is I or atta); all beings do good or
crime depends on the feeling (that is me or atta);
all beings do good or evil depends on
the perception (which is me or atta); all beings
do good or evil depends on the formations


 of mind (which are me or atta); all beings
do good or evil depends on six
group of consciousness (which is me or atta);
Thus Saccaka expressed his views on the theory of
atta (self) with a parable; (he likens the five
groups of life by soil, and living things
depending on the five groups of life like land.
They do good or evil depends on five
groups of life). "Reverend Gotama has ignored
evidence of the existence of atta and claiming it as anatta (no-
self). "Thus Saccaka stated the theory of self unequivocally
in the parable.
The parable that revealed by Saccaka was well known, and
believed to be the truth. Unless the Buddhas who have attained
Perfect Enlightenment, no one was able to deny
self theory which he declared it. There are two types of living things
(1) those that can be taught only by the Buddhas who has
achieve Perfect Enlightenment and (2) those that can be taught
by the Sàvakas. Those in the group (2) can
taught by the Buddhas or Buddhist students, but they
who was in the group (1) can only be taught by the Buddha
himself. Saccaka nomads are people who are in first
group and only can be taught by the Buddha himself. Because of
that, the Buddha decided to teach the next
personal and deny his view:
"Aggissevana heredity, Saccaka. Are you saying
that the physical body is I (atta), that feeling is
I (atta), that perception is I (atta), that the formations
 of the mind are I (atta), that the six groups
consciousness is I (atta)? "
Saccaka realize that the "Samana Gotama has complicated
by forcing me to declare and confirm as well as
admit my theory with a self (attavàda) in front of the audience. "
If something unpleasant happens, I will be blamed


for my theory about this self, "and thinking to please
Vesali residents as fellow theorists of atta, he
answer:
"O Gotama Your Excellency, I did say," Physical
body is atta, feeling is atta, perception is
atta, formations of mind are atta, six groups
consciousness is atta, and the residents of Vesali also said
so. "
Tathagata, a hundred thousand times superior than Saccaka
in terms of confidence, do not let Saccaka involve the
others; He will conquer Saccaka only, and said
to him:
"Saccaka what is the connection of the residents in this case? I
urge you, Saccaka, explain your views yourself. "
(What's going to say is this: Not everyone here
who came to argue my view, you are the only one
that came to deny my view, they
came because you invited them to watch
this debate. Responsibility for expressing views
lie to you, and do not involve them).
Saccaka be forced to repeat his view, "O Gotama
Your Excellency, I did say, " the physical body is
atta, feeling is atta, perception is atta, formations
of the mind are atta, six groups of consciousness is
atta. "
After forcing Saccaka explain his own views,
Tathagata asked:
"Saccaka, because you recognize that the five groups
life is atta, I'll ask about it;
answer: Saccaka how do you think; Is elected king
like King Pasenadi Kosala, or the heir to the throne King Ajatasattu,


ruler of Magadha, the son of Queen Vedehi, have powers
of their kingdom respectively to order the death penalty
for someone who deserves the death penalty, ordered
for seizing someone's property who is worthy of seized and expelled
person whose worthy evicted? "
In answer to that question, Saccaka said:
"O Gotama His Excellency, an elected king as King
Pasenadi Kosala, or the heir to the throne King Ajatasattu, ruler
of Magadha, the son of Queen Vedehi, have powers
of their kingdom respectively to order the death penalty
for someone who deserves the death penalty, ordered
for seizing someone's property who is worthy of seized and expelled
someone worthy of expulsion.
O Gotama His Excellency, even the government of colonial countries
such Vajji or Malla also has power in their kingdom
respectively to order the death penalty for a person
would be eligible for the death penalty, ordered to
seizing someone's property worthy of seized and expelled
someone worthy of expulsion, moreover elected king as King
Pasenadi Kosala or king Ajatasattu of Magadha kingdom, the son of
Queen Vedehi? Yes, O Gotama, he deserves to have that power. "
(Tathagata intentionally directing Saccaka with the aim
to destroy his theory of self (atta Vada); Saccaka because
not wise even go one step further "sharpen
weapons that would stab him "by saying the government
of Vajji and Malla to support this claim).
"O Saccaka, how about the following questions? You
said "physical body is atta (I)." If so, can
you force it to obey your words, by saying
"Let my physical body like this: let my physical body
not like this? "
When the Tathagata ask, Saccaka can only silent


himself.
(Note: Saccaka realized his mistake. He thought "Samana
Gotama was trying to destroy my sight; I
really stupid has provided an opportunity to Samana
Gotama to beat me in my own game;
I have been destroyed and can not be saved; If I
said "I have power over my physical body," the
Licchavi princes will stand up and deny me because my ugly
body when compared with those who are good-looking body
like the Tàvatimsa gods).
If I choose to say, "I do not have power over my physical
body, "Samana Gotama will stand up and deny me," O
Saccaka, you mentioned that you can hold
control over the physical body, and now you pull
back your statement. "He was completely wrong. Therefore he
only silence.
For the second time the Tathagata urged Saccaka to answer
the same question:
"O Saccaka, what about my question below? You
said "physical body is atta (I)." If so, can
you force it to obey your words, by saying
"Let my physical body like this: Let my physical body
not like this? "
Saccaka remain silent, and did not answer the question
of Tathagata for the second time in a row.
(If you do not give a rational answer to the question
filed by a Buddha who has attained Perfect
Enlightenment three consecutive times, it is an act
of torture a Buddha, and therefore the head of the offender
will break into seven pieces, according to natural law, the Dhamma-
Niyama).


The Buddha had attained Perfect Enlightenment, has
meet Parami for four asankheyya and hundred thousand kappa,
because of his compassion to all beings, therefore,
Tathagata is not repeat his question a third time,
but change the topic of discussion, "Saccaka talk now;
Now is not the time for you to be silent; head of
someone who does not answer the rational question posed
by a Buddha three times in a row will break into
seven pieces. "
Then Sakka who can not hold back, come to the place
disguised as a giant who holds the mace
lit on fire and stood directly overhead of Saccaka, as
if threatening to punish him if he failed to answer
rational questions posed by the Tathagata three consecutive
times. The scene was only seen by the Tathagata and Saccaka.
(No one else can see it).
(Note: Sakka came and holding a mace in his hand and
standing on Saccaka as compassionate as the Buddha,
and to persuade him to take his fault
by posing as a fearsome giant and
threatened him with mace. He appears not to harm
Saccaka but rather for not happen anything that is not
good in front of the Buddha. (Majjhima Tikà).
The reason why it comes disguised as a giant Sakka is
that, he wants to open a new Saccaka and embrace
Right View. Sakka with Brahma Sahampati when Brahma
Sahampati asked the Buddha to teach Dhamma.
They both appealed to the Buddha to teach
Dhamma, and their responsibility to persuade the people
that reluctant so that want to live up to their instructions. "You
are the Dhamma master, and we are its law enforcement. "
So Sakka appears in the guise of a giant in order to
fulfill its responsibilities. (Majjhima Commentary).
When Saccaka see Sakka in the guise of giant, his body


soaked by sweat because of fear, sweat flowing and
wind waves churning his stomach. He looked around
to see if anyone else is also watching the scene
It was strange that no one is watching. He thought
it is not wise to yell "there's big giant" when
no one saw it, and only provide an opportunity to
people to say, "We also have eyes, but only
you are the only one who saw the giant; you see it
for arguing with the Samana Gotama. "He was so shaken
so that his hair stood and shivered with fear. Not
one but the Bhagava where he could seek refuge,
finally he said to the Buddha, "Ask, Gotama the
Gentlemen, I will answer. "
Tathagata asked him:
"Saccaka, what about my question below? You
said "physical body is atta (I)." If so, can
you force it to obey your words, by saying
"Let my physical body like this: Let my physical body
not like this? "
Saccaka replied, "Gotama Your Excellency, I do not have
that power. "Then the Tathagata reminded him," Saccaka,
think first, think deeply before you
answered. What's that you say is not in tune with what
before you say, and what you are saying
previously not in tune with what you just said.
Your both statement contradict each other. "And he
continue the question:
"Saccaka what about my question below."
You say, "The feeling is atta (I)," if so,
do you have power over your feelings and you can
say 'Let me feel like this: let my feelings
not like this'? "


Saccaka replied, "Gotama the Honorable. I do not have
that power. "
Tathagata then reminded him, "Saccaka, think first
first, think deeply before you answer. What
that you say is not in tune with what you
said before, and what you said before
not in tune with what you just said. Your both
statements contradict each other. "And he
continued his questions:
"Saccaka what about my question below."
You say, "perception is atta (I)," if so,
do you have power over perception and you
can say 'Let my perception like this: let
my perception not like this'? "
Saccaka replied, "Gotama the Honorable. I do not have
that power. "Then the Tathagata reminded him," Saccaka
think first, think deeply before you
answered. What's that you say is not in tune with what
before you say, and what you are saying
previously not in tune with what you just said.
Both statement contradict each other. "And he
continue the question:
"Saccaka how about the following questions."
You say, "shapes formed by the mind are atta
(I), "if so, do you have power over
formations of mind and you can say 'Let
thought formations like this; let my thought
formations are not like this'? "
Saccaka replied, "Gotama the Honorable. I do not have
that power. "Then the Tathagata reminded him," Saccaka
think first, think deeply before you


answered. What's that you say is not in tune with what
before you say, and what you are saying
previously not in tune with what you just said.
Both statement contradict each other. "And he
continue the question:
"Saccaka what about my question below."
You say, "The six groups of consciousness is atta
(I), "if so, do you have power over
six groups of consciousness and you can say 'Let
six groups of consciousness like this: let the six groups
consciousness is not like this'? "
Saccaka replied, "Gotama the Honorable. I do not have
that power. "
Tathagata then reminded him, "think first Saccaka
first, think deeply before you answer. What
that you say is not in tune with what you
said before, and what you said before
not in tune with what you just said. Your
both statement contradict each other. "
Tathagata continued his counsel to Saccaka by
preach the sermon in the form of questions and answers three times,
a way of teaching known as 'teparivatta Dhamma
desanà '.
"Saccaka, what do you think? Is physical body eternal
or inconstant? "
Saccaka replied, "Not eternal, O Gotama," Tathagata asked
again, "What is not eternal, painful (dukkha) or
pleasant (sukha)? "Saccaka replied," It is painful, O
Gotama. "
"Is it the right think that this physical body, which is not


eternal, painful and always changing is mine (because
attachment), this physical body is me (pride);
This is my atta (because of wrong views). "Saccaka replied,
"O Gotama, it is not right."
"Nomad Saccaka, how do you think? Whether
feeling ... perception ... mind formations ... Is the
six groups of consciousness constant or inconstant? "Saccaka
replied, "Not eternal, Reverend Gotama." "And that is not
eternal, whether painful or pleasant? "" It is painful,
O Gotama. "
"Is it the right think that the six groups of consciousness,
which are impermanent, painful and always changing, "This consciousness is
mine (as attachment); this consciousness is me (because
of vanity), this consciousness is my atta (because
wrong view).
Saccaka replied, "Reverend Gotama, it is not right."
Like a snake charmer that expert forcing snake to
suck venom back from the wound of the body of a
victim of bites, in such manner Tathagata forcing the
Saccaka acknowledged by his own mouth that the five aggregates
is impermanent, painful, and no-self rather than permanent,
pleasant and has a core as claimed by
his own mouth in front of the same audience, the
Licchavi princes. (snake venom which is a wrong view
about atta spoken by Saccaka's mouth has been forced to
sucked back by the same mouth, and Saccaka admitted anatta,
no-self, in the presence of the audience).
Tathagata thus force Saccaka to admit
that the five aggregates are impermanent, painful, and
no-self in front of the crowd, and because of
want to conquer in order to receive the truth with his head
bowed, Tathagata continued his questions:


Recluse Saccaka, how do you think about the My following
question, "If someone is attached to the dukkha, bound to the
dukkha, clutching dukkha and consider dukkha
(Five aggregates) as the dukkha is mine (because
attachment); dukkha is me (because of pride) and
dukkha is my atta (because of wrong view), can he
understand dukkha (with three prinnà)? Can he dwells
in the extinction of dukkha? "
Saccaka replied, "O Gotama His Excellency, how
possible? Obviously it is impossible! "Then Tathagata continued
His question:
"Nomad Saccaka ... What do you think about
My following question: If so, by attached at
dukkha (the five aggregates), bound to the dukkha (the
the five aggregates), held on to dukkha (over five
group of life), do you not adopt the wrong
view, and assume that this dukkha (five aggregates)
 is mine (as attachments) this dukkha is me (because
pride) and dukkha is my atta (because of wrong
view); with this view, you are in the wrong way
with respect to the view? "
Saccaka replied, "O Gotama The Honorable ... How
possible not like that! I did consider it
so. "
Then the Tathagata continued his counsel to Saccaka:
"Saccaka, like a person, who need a core of wood,
looking for wood core, and ventured into the woods by
bring a sharp ax. He may find a
banana trees that straight, not branchy. He cut down
Under the tree, then cut the bud. Then he
peel its midrib. After peeling its midrib, that person
will not find the bark, moreover wood core.


Similarly, Saccaka, when I ask a question
to you in connection with your view, you turned out to
be empty, vain, and useless.
O Saccaka, you have been bragging to the residents of Vesali,
with empty pride: 'I've never met
one whom admitted as a samana, Brahmin or Buddha
who achieve Perfect Enlightenment, which can survive without
sweat from his armpits when I was deny and
denounce their views and even the wooden blocks are not able to
remain silent when I talk about things related
with a spiritual view, especially living things! '"
Tathagata later showed his body that golden colored
 to the audience and said, "Saccaka... not
seen the sweat on my body now. "
(Note: Of course, the human body excrete sweat at
certain times, therefore, the Tathagata said: 'Not visible
the sweat on my body at this time. '
With respect to 'show his body that golden
color ', it does not mean that he showed all His
body. The Buddhas is usually fastened his cloak well,
while sitting in front of others. Tathagata, at the time,
holds His clothing up to his neck and lower around
four inches is enough for the red rays radiating out,
spinning like a stream of molten gold or flash of light, surrounding
Tathagata's head, resembling the shape of gold drums then
shot upward.
(Tathagata has done this to eliminate any doubt, if
any, on the part of the audience, if the Tathagata does not reveal
reality by showing (his body), some
people may deny, "We can see the grain of
sweat flowing down from the body of Saccaka; Samana Gotama
said that he does not sweat, but we do not know for
sure whether that's true because his body covered entirely by


two-layered cloak ").
When the Tathagata say it, Saccaka sit quietly with
sad looks, his shoulders dropped and his head bowed desperate.