Majjhima Nikaya - Culasaccaka Sutta

35. Culasaccaka Sutta - English Majjhima Nikàya I
4. 5. Cålasaccakasuttaü
(35 ) The Shorter Discourse to Saccaka

I heard thus.
At one time the Blessed One lived in a peaked hall, in the Great forest in
Vesàli. At that time Saccaka, the son of Nigan. tha, a clever disputant,
considered wise by many lived in Vesàli. He would go about Vesàli saying. I do
not see a recluse, a brahmin, a leader of a crowd, a teacher of a crowd, or one
acknowledging he is perfect and rightfully enlightened not shivering, trembling
and sweating when invited to a dispute by me. Even a lifeless pillar drawn to a
dispute by me would shiver and tremble, so what of a human being. Then venerable
Assaji putting on robes in the morning, taking bowl and robes entered Vsàli for
alms. Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha walking and wandering for exercise saw
venerable Assaji coming in the distance and approached venerable Assaji.
exchanged friendly greetings and standing on a side said: "Good Assaji, how are
the disciples of the recluse Gotama trained, and in what section are they given
a lot of the training. Then venerable Assaji said, Aggivessana, the Blessed One
gives his disciples a lot of advice and trains the disciples much in this
section:"Bhikkhus, matter is impermanent. Feelings are impermanent. Perceptions
are impermanent. Determinations are impermanent and consciousness is
impermanent. Bhikkhus, matter is not self. Feelings are not self. Perceptions
are not self. Determinations are not self, and consciousness is not self. All
determinations are impermanent. All things are not self". [1] Aggivessana, the
Blessed One advises the bhikkhus much on this and the training is much on this.
Good Assaji, we heard something that should not be heard. If the recluse Gotama
is of this view, indeed we should meet him for a conversation on this. To dispel
doubts on this view.
At that time about five hundred Licchavis were assembled in the assembly hall
for some purpose. Then Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha approached them and said:
Come Licchavis, today there is a dispute between me and the recluse Gotama, If
the recluse Gotama affirms this view of his disciple bhikkhu Assaji, we will
draw the recluse Gotama to a dispute, pulling him about and dragging him about.
Like a strong man taking a sheep by its long fleece, would pull it and drag it
about. Or like a strong brewer of liqueur submerging a huge crater in a deep
pond, would shake it about, and holding it by the ears would shake it about. In
the same manner we would pull and drag about the recluse Gotama in a dispute.
Like an elephant of sixty cubits, descending a deep pond, would enjoy the game
of washing hemp. We would enjoy the game of washing hemp with the recluse
Gotama. Come Licchavis, there will be a dispute between me and the recluse
Gotama. Then a certain Licchavi would say. What has the recluse Gotama a dispute
with Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha? Or is it that Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha
has a dispute with the recluse Gotama? Another Licchavi would say. What, is
resplendent Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha drawing the recluse Gotama for a
dispute? Or is the recluse Gotama drawing Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha for a
dispute? Then Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha approached the gabled hall in the
Great forest followed by about five hundred Licchavis At that time many bhikkhus
were doing the walking meditation in the open. Then Saccaka the son of Nigan.
tha approached those bhikkhus and asked. Where does good Gotama abide at this
time, we like to see him. Aggivessana, the Blessed One has entered the great
forest and is seated at the root of a tree to spend the day. Then Saccàka the
son of Nigan. tha approached the Great forest and the Blessed One, exchanging
friendly greetings with him sat on a side. Then some of those Licchavis
worshipped the Blessed One and sat on a side Some exchanged friendly greetings
and sat on a side, some clasped their hands in the direction of the Blessed One
and sat on a side, some voiced their names and clans and sat on a side, and
others sat on a side silently.
Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha then said thus to the Blessed One. We would ask a
certain question from good Gotama. If good Gotama would give us leave and would
explain it to us. The Blessed One said, ask Aggivessana what you desire. How
does good Gotama advise the disciples and in what sections are they given much
training? Aggivessana, I advise and train my disciple much in this manner.
"Bhikkhus, matter is impermanent. Feelings are impermanent. Perceptions and
determinations are impermanent. Consciousness is impermanent. Bhikkhus, matter
is not self. Feelings are not self. Perceptions and determinations are not self.
Consciousness is not self. All determinations are impermanent. All things are
not self. Aggivessana, I advise my disciples and train them much in this
section. Good Gotama, a comparison occurs to me. Say it Aggivessana. Like these
seed groups and vegetable groups that grow and develop, established and
supported on earth. So also all powerful work, that has to be done, should be
done, established and supported on earth. In the same manner this person,
established in matter, with the material self accrues merit or demerit. This
feeling person established in feelings accrues merit or demerit. The perceiving
person established in perceptions accrues merit or demerit. The determining
person established in determinations, accrues merit or demerit. The conscious
person established in consciousness, accrues merit or demerit. Aggivessana, do
you say Matter is my self. Feelings are my self. Perceptions are my self.
Determinations are my self. Conscioussness is my self. ? Good Gotama, I say.
matter is my self. Feelings are my self. Perceptions are my self. Determinations
are my self. Consciousness is my self, so also this large crowd says it. What
does this large crowd say about your view? You should dispute on your view. Good
Gotama, I say, matter is my self. Feelings are my self. Perceptions are my self.
Determinations are my self, and conscioussness is my self.
Then, I will cross question you on this and you may reply, as it pleases you.
Aggivessana, do head anointed warrior kings like king Pasenadi of Kosala, king
Ajàtasattu of Magadha wield power over their kingdoms, to execute those that
have to be executed, to produce those that have to be produced, and to banish
those that have to be banished?Yes, good Gotama, the head anointed warrior kings
such as king Pasenadi of Kosala and king Ajàtasattu of Magadha wield power in
their kingdoms to execute those that have to be executed, to produce those that
have to be produced, and to banish those that have to be banished. Even the
leaders, gathered here, of the Vajjis and Mallas, wield power in their kingdoms
to execute those that have to be executed, to produce those that have to be
produced and to banish those that have to be banished, so there are no doubts,
about head anointed warrior kings, like king Pasenadi of Kosala and king
Ajàtasattu of Magadha. Aggivessana, you say matter is your self, do you wield
power over that matter, as may my matter be thus and not thus? When this was
said Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha became silent. For the second time, the
Blessed One asked, Aggivessana, you say matter is your self, do you wield power
over that matter, as may my matter be thus and not thus? For the second time
Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha became silent. Then the Blessed One said, explain
it, Aggivessana. It is not the time for you to be silent. If someone does not
reply a rightful question asked by the Thus Gone One up to the third time, his
head splits into seven pieces. At that moment Vajrapàni the demon was seen in
space with a flaming thunderbolt in his hand, as though to split the head of
Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha if he did not reply the rightful question asked up
to the third time by the Thus gone One. Vajrapàni the demon was seen by the
Blessed One and Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha. Then Saccaka the son of Nigan.
tha frightened and with hairs standing on end, sought the refuge and protection
of the Blessed One said, Good Gotama, ask me, I will explain.
Aggivessana, you that say, matter is your self, do you wield power over that
matter, as may my matter be thus, and not otherwise? No, good Gotama. Attend
carefully and reply Aggivessana. What you said earlier does not agree with what
you say now. Aggivessana, you that say, feelings are your self, do you wield
power over those feelings, as may my feelings be thus, and not otherwise? No,
good Gotama. Attend carefully and reply Aggivessana. What you said earlier does
not agree with what you say now. Aggivessana, you that say, perceptions are your
self, do you wield power over those perceptions, as may my perceptions be thus
and not otherwise? No, good Gotama. Attend carefully and reply Aggivessana. What
you said earlier, does not agree with what you say now. Aggivessana, you, that
say, determinations are your self, do you wield power over those determinations,
as may my determinations be thus and not otherwise. No, good Gotama. Attend
carefully and reply Aggivessana. What you said earlier does not agree with what
you say now. Aggivessana, you, that say, consciousness is your self, do you
wield power over that consciousness, as may my consciousness be thus and not
otherwise? No, good Gotama. Attend carefully and reply Aggivessana. What you
said earlier does not agree with what you say now. What do you think,
âggivessana, is matter permanent or impermanent? Impermanent good Gotama. That
impermanent thing, is it unpleasant or pleasant? Unpleasant good Gotama. That
impermanent, unpleasant, changing thing, is it suitable to be considered; that
is mine, that I be, that is my self? No good Gotama. Aggivessana, are
feelings-are perceptions, --are determinations, --is consciousness permanent or
impermanent? Impermanent good Gotama. That impermanent thing is it unpleasanat
or pleasant? Unpleasant, good Gotama. That impermanent, unpleasant, changing
thing, is it suitable to be considered, that is mine, that I be, that is my
self? No, good Gotama. Aggivessana, a certain one clinging to unpleasantness,
over powered by it, pressed down by it and reflecting it's mine, would think
it's my self. Would he accurately understand unpleasàntness by himself or ward
it off and abide? Good Gotama, how could it be. No, good Gotama, that would not
happen.
Aggivessana, like a man, wandering in search of heartwood, would enter a forest
with a dagger, seeing a tall, straight, new plantain tree he would cut its roots
and top and felling it, would open up the sheaves, and would not come even to
sapwood, so where is heartwood. In the same manner, Aggivessana, with your own
dispute you being cross questioned, asked for reasons and we studying with you
found you empty, useless and gone wrong. Have you said to these gatherings in
Vesàli such a thing. I do not see a recluse, or brahmin, a leader of a crowd, a
teacher of a crowd, or even one who acknowledges he is perfect and rightfully
enlightened drawn into a dispute by me would not shiver tremble and sweat. Even
a lifeless pillar drawn to a dispute by me would shiver and tremble, so what of
a human being. As for you Aggivessana, there is sweat trickling down your
forehead and some drops of sweat have pierced your over shawl and has fallen on
the ground, on my body at the moment there is no sweat. Saying that the Blessed
One disclosed his golden hued body to that gathering. When this was said,
Saccaka, the son of Nigan. tha became silent, confused, his form drooping, face
turned down, unable to reply, sat down.
Then Dummukha the son of the Licchavis, saw Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha
silent, confused, the form drooping, face turned down, unable to reply sitting.
He said to the Blessed One; venerable sir, a comparison comes to me. The Blessed
One said, say it Dummukha. Venerable sir, close to a village or hamlet, there's
a pond, in it a crab lives. Then a lot of boys and girls approach the pond,
descend it and pull out the crab on to dry land. Whenever the crab puts out a
limb, a boy or a girl would cut it and destroy it, with a stick or a stone. Thus
the crab with all his limbs destroyed, is unable to descend to the pond as
before. In the same manner, the Blessed One has cut, broken and destroyed, all
the distortions of views and the restlessness of Saccaka the son of Nigantha,
and it is not possible that he should approach the Blessed One with the
intention of a dispute. When this was said, Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha said
thus to Dummukha the son of the Licchavis. Wait, Dhummukha, we have to discuss
with good Gotama
Good Gotama, this view of mine, is also the view of all other recluses and
brahmins. I think it is idle talk. How do the disciples of good Gotama, do the
work in the dispensation, follow the given advice, dispelling doubts, become
confident, and abide not relying on a teacher, in the dispensation of the
Teacher. Here, Aggivessana, my disciples see whatever matter, in the past,
future or present, internal or external, coarse or fine, unexalted or exalted,
far or near, all that matter is not mine. I'm not that, it is not my self. This
is seen with right wisdom, as it really is. Whatever feelings, whatever
perceptions, whatever determinations, whatever consciousness, in the past,
future or present, internal or external, coarse or fine, un -exalted or exalted,
far or near, all consciousness is not mine. I'm not that, it is not my self.
This is seen with right wisdom as it really is. Aggivessana, with this much, my
disciples have done the work in my dispensation, followed the advice, dispelling
doubts have become confident not relying on a teacher abide. Good Gotama, how
does the bhikkhu become perfect with desires destroyed, the holy life lived
having done what should be done, the weight put down, attained the highest good,
the desire `to be' destroyed, and rightly knowing released. Here, Aggivessana,
whatever matter, in the past, future or present, internal or external, coarse or
fine, unexalted or exalted, far or near, all matter is not mine. I'm not that,
it is not my self, This should be seen with right wisdom, as it really is, and
the mind released without holdings. [2] Whatever feelings, in the past, future
or present, internal or external, coarse or fine, unexalted or exalted, far or
near, all feelings are not mine. I'm not that, it's not my self. This should be
seen with right wisdom, as it really is and the mind released without holdings.
Whatever perceptions, in the past, future or present, internal or external,
coarse or fine, unexalted or exalted, far or near, all perceptions are not mine.
I'm not that, it's not my self. This should be seen with right wisdom, as it
really is, and the mind released without holdings. Whatever determinations, in
the past, future or present, internal or external, coarse or fine, unexalted or
exalted, far or near, all determinations are not mine. I'm not that, it's not my
self. This should be seen with right wisdom, as it really is, and the mind
released without holdings. Whatever consciousness, in the past, future or
present, internal or external, coarse or fine, unexalted or exalted, far or
near, all consciousness is not mine. I'm not that, it's not my self. This should
be seen with right wisdom, as it really is, and the mind released without
holdings. Aggivessana, when this much is done the bhikkhu is perfect with
desires destroyed, the holy life lived, what should be done, done, the weight
put down, come to the highest good, the desires `to be' destroyed, and rightly
knowing is released. Aggivessana, the mind of the bhãkkhu so released is endowed
with three nobilities: The nobility of vision, the nobility of method, and the
nobility of release. Aggivessana, the bhikkhu so released honours, reveres, and
esteems the Thus Gone One:. The Blessed One is enlightened, preaches for
enlightenment, the Blessed One tamed preaches for taming, the Blessed One
appeased preaches for appeasement. The Blessed One crossed over, preaches for
crossing over, the Blessed One extinguished preaches for extinguishing.
When this was said Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha said thus to the Blessed One;
We were bold and daring and thought should insult good Gotama with a dispute.
One insulting a furious elephant would be safe, yet not a man insulting good
Gotama. There is safety to a man disturbing a burning flame, but there is no
safety to a man insulting good Gotama. A man insulting a venomous snake would
find safety, yet one insulting good Gotama would not find safety. We were bold
and daring and thought to insult good Gotama with a dispute. May good Gotama,
accept tomorrow's meal from me together with the Community of bhikkhus. The
Blessed One accepted in silence.
Then Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha knowing that the Blessed One had accepted
addressed the Licchavis: Good Licchavis, listen. I have invited the Blessed One
and the Community of bhikkhus for tomorrow's meal. Bring what ever you think is
suitable. Then those Licchavis at the end of that night brought five hundred
bowls filled with cooked rice. Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha too caused to
prepare plenty of nourishing eatables and drinks in his own monastery, and
informed the time to the Blessed One: Good Gotama, it is time, the food is
ready. Then the Blessed One putting on robes in the morning and taking bowl and
robes, approached the monastery of Saccaka the son of Nigan. tha and sat on the
prepared seat together with the Community of bhikkhus. Then Saccaka the son of
Nigan. tha with his own hands offered plenty of nourishing eatables and drinks
to the Community of bhikkhus headed by the Enlightened One. Saccaka the son of
Nigan. tha saw that the Blessed One had finished taking the meal and had put
away the bowl, then he took a low seat sat on a side, and said to the Blessed
One. May the excellent merits of this offering, be to those givers. Aggivessana,
may merits accured from offerings made to you, not free from greed, hate and
delusion, be to the givers. May merits accured from making offerings to me, free
of greed, hate and delusion, [3] be to you.



[1] Bhikkhus, matter is impermanent. Feelings are impermanent. Perceptions are
impermanent. Determinations are impermanent and consciousness is impermanent.
Bhikkhus, matter is not self. Feelings are not self. Perceptions are not self.
Determinations are not self, and consciousness is not self. All determinations
are impermanent. All things are not self (råpaü bhikkhave aniccaü, vedanà
aniccà, sa¤¤à aniccà, sankhàrà aniccà, vi¤¤ànaü aniccaü. råpaü bhikkhave anattà,
vedanà anattà, sa¤¤à anattà, sankhàrà anattà, vi¤¤ànaü anattà, sabbe sankhàrà
aniccà, sabbe dhamme anattà. ti). This is the quintessence of the Teaching of
the Blessed One, to drive this home is the realizatlion of the Teaching. These
things, matter, feelings, perceptions, determinations and consciousness should
be thoroughly understood first. It is for this purpose that the words of the
Blessed One should be widely read, discriminatingly thought about and the
essence taken.
[2] Whatever matter, in the past, future or present, internal or external,
coarse or fine, unexalted or exalted, far or near, all matter is not mine. I'm
not that, it is not my self, This should be seen with right wisdom, as it really
is, and the mind released without holdings (yankinci råpaü atãtànàgata
paccuppannaü ajjhatthaü và bahiddhà và olàrikaü và sukhumaü và hãnaü và panãtaü
và yaü dåre santike và, sabbam råpaü `netaü mama nesohamasmi nameso attàti evaü
etaü yathàbhåtaü sammappa¤¤àya disvà anupàdà vimutto hoti). This selection shows
how the mind is released from matter, and there are four more selections to show
how the mind is released from feelings, perceptions, determinations and
consciousness. These five together are the five holding masses which is
equivalent to the self view. If someone makes an effort to undo his ties to at
least one of these, he makes a steadfast attempt to lessen his self view. That
is the training in the dispensation of the Blessed One. This kind of
concentration is called `vipassanà' in Pali, which translates as `seeing with
insight'.
[3] Merits accured from making offerings to me, free from greed, hate and
delusion (màdisaü dakkhineyyaü àgamma vãtaràgaü vãtadosaü vãtamohaü, taü tuyhaü
bhavissati). The Blessed One tries to explain that offerings made to those free
of greed, hate and delusion accure the highest merit.