Points of Controversy
OR
Subjects of Discourse
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA
BY
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A
AND
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
5. Of the Eighth Man.
4
Controverted Point.—That for the person in the Eighth
Stage, outbursts of wrong views and of doubt are put
away.
From the Commentary.—Here the question is raised concerning a
certain view of both Andhakas and Sammitiyas, namely, that, at the
4
Atthama-ko , literally Eighth-er. Of the Four Paths and.
Four Fruitions, this is the lowest, the first reached, or eighth from
Arahantship. The more correct view was that the victories alluded to-
belonged only to the next stage—to the 'moment' of fruition—making:
the subject a genuine ' Stream Winner.'
moment of entering on the Path, after qualification and adoption,1 two
of the (ten) corruptions no longer break out in the eighth man—that is,
the person who has entered on the stream.
[1] Th.—Are you then also prepared to admit that the
eighth man is a Stream-Winner, one who has won, obtained,
arrived at, and realized the Fruit of Stream-Winning, and
that, having achieved, he lives in personal contact therewith?
[2, 3] Are you further prepared to admit that he has put
away the latent bias of doubt and wrong views ? And if
these, then also the infection of mere rule and ritual ?
For your proposition involves all this. [4] Conversely, if
you deny that these are put away by him, you must also
deny that he has put away wrong views and doubt.
[5] How should he have already put away wrong views
and doubt when he has not yet practised the Path wherein
they get put away? And not only the Path (the Eight-
fold), but all the other factors of Enlightenment?2
[6] For if he have not put away wrong views and doubt
by the Path, or the other factors, he can surely not have
put them away by means that is not the Path, but is
worldly, co-intoxicant, etc. . . .3 and corrupt.
[7-8] A. S.—Since you deny that a person of the eighth
rank has put away the [overt] outburst of wrong views
and of doubt, I ask you, will these arise any more in him ?
Th.—They will not.
A. S.—Surely then our proposition is true: they are
put away.
[9, 10] Th.-—Assuming that the outbursts will not again
arise [i.e., become manifest in action], you say they are
put away. But is the latent bias of wrong opinions,
doubt, and belief in mere rule and ritual equally put
away simply because these do not arise? And this you
are not prepared to admit.
[11] Once more, you claim that the eighth man has put
away wrong views and doubt. But you must then allow
1 See Compendium, pp. 55, 67 f., 129, n. 3, 170, n, 1.
2 See above, I. 2, §§ 14-20 ; III . 2, § 1.
3 For these elisions in the text, not ours, see above, III. 3, § 7.
that one who has reached the stage in Jhana-meditation of
'adoption'1 has put them away, and in this you do not
concur.
6. Of the Controlling Powers2 of the Eighth Man.
Controverted Point.—That the five controlling powers
are absent3 in a person of the Eighth Stage.
From the Commentary.—Among the Andhakas it is held that, at
the moment of entering the (first stage of the) Path, the ' Eighth Man'
is in process of acquiring, but has not yet attained to, these powers.
[1] Th.—You must deny him faith, if you deny in him
the controlling power of faith. So also for the other
four. But you will not go as far as that. [2] Contrari-
wise, you do allow that he [as Eighth Man] has faith and
the rest, but you go no farther. [8] Yet you are prepared
to admit, with respect to other controlling powers—e.g.,
mind, gladness, etc. . . . and psychic life4 —that whoso has
the attribute, has also the controlling power of it. [4] Why
draw the line at those five ? [5, 6] as, in fact, you do.
[7] You contend that, whereas the controlling power of
faith is absent in him, faith itself is not absent. That
whereas the controlling powers of energy, mindfulness,
concentration, and reason are absent in him, he is neither
indolent, nor heedless, nor unsteady or mentally vacillating,
nor stupid, nor deaf, nor dumb.
[8], You acknowledge that his faith, energy, etc., are
[of the saving kind called] forth-leading,5 yet you do not
credit him with the controlling powers [in which such
attributes consist].
1 See above, from the Commentary.
2 The five spiritual (or moral) sense-faculties are faith, energy,
mindfulness, 'concentration, reason, or understanding. We cannot
point to any passage where they are, as a pentad,, connected with the
five 'external' senses. But they were considered, no less than the
latter five, as capable of being raised to powers controlling the
reciprocal interaction of the human being and his environment.
3 I.e., of course, not yet developed at this stage.
4 See Bud. Psy. Eth., p. 4 (xviii.) and p. 19, § 19; Compendium, 17.
5 Niyyanika . Cf. Bud. Psy. Eth., p 82, n. 2.
[9-12] You admit the attainment both of the attributes
and of these five controlling powers in the person who is
practising that he may realize the fruit of Once-Beturning,
of Never-Returning, of Arahantship, but you deny the latter
for the Eighth Man alone ; the one goes with the other !
[13] Finally, is there not a Suttanta in which the
Exalted One said : 'The five controlling powers, bhikkhus—
which are they ? The controlling poivers that are faith, energy,
mindfulness, concentration, wader standing. From the comple-
tion and perfection of these five, a man becomes Arahant. Held
in a weaker degree, the holder becomes one who is practising that
he may realize the Fruit of Arahantship; in a yet weaker degree
the holder becomes a Never-Returner ; in a yet toeaker degree,,
one who is practising that he may realize the Fruit of Never -
Returning; in a yet toeaker degree, a Once-Returner; in a
yet weaker degree, one who is practising that he may realize
the Fruit of Once-Returning; in a yet toeaker degree, a
Stream-Winner; in a yet weaker degree, one who is prac-
tising that he may realize the Fruit of Stream- Winning. In
whom these five controlling powers are in every way, and
everywhere wholly absent, he, I declare, is one tvho stands
without, in the ranks of the average man ' ?1
Yet you would not say that the Eighth Man stood thus
without ? Hence you must concede that the five con-
trolling powers are present in him.
1 Samyutta-Nikaya, v. 202.
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