Points of  Controversy 
OR 
Subjects of  Discourse 
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU 
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA 
BY 
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A 
AND 
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
Of Unintentional Crime; Insight; the Guards of Purgatory 
BOOK XX 
1. Of  Unintentional  Crime. 
Controverted  Point.—That  the five  cardinal crimes, even 
when unintentionally committed, involve retribution im-
mediately after  death. 
From the Commentary.  - Inasmuch as the grounds for  immediate 
retribution after  death are very weighty and grave, some—for  instance, 
the Uttarapathakas—hold that even the unintentional infliction  of  such 
injuries calls for  it. 
[1] Th.—But  you imply that if  I accidentally take away 
life,  I am a murderer, [2] and [similarly as to two of  the 
other four  wicked deeds forbidden  by morality] that if  I 
accidentally take what is not given, I am a thief  . . . 
if  I utter untruths unintentionally, I am a liar. You 
deny. Yet you wish to make exceptions [to the relative 
innocence of  such acts] in just those five  serious cases. . . . 
[3] Can you-cite me a Sutta judging unintentional 
crime like that which says: 'He  that  intentionally  takes 
his mother s life  incurs immediate  retribution'?1 You  cannot. 
Neither can you maintain your proposition. 
[4] U.—But  does not the fact  remain that the mother's 
life  is taken ?2 Surely then the unintentional slayer also 
incurs immediate retribution. [5-7] Similarly, too, does 
1
 We cannot trace this passage. So far  as his own future  is con-
cerned, the individual's mental acts rather than his deeds create it. 
Cf.  Majjhima-Nik.,  i. 372 f  ; cf.  iii. 207. See above, 80, n. 5; cf.  274. 
2
 This question is answered in the affirmative  with reference  to 
accidental loss of  life  under medical treatment.—Comy.
one who unintentionally kills father  or Arahant, or sheds a 
Buddha's blood, incur a like doom. 
[8] Th.—[Now  as to the fifth  of  such crimes]: do you 
imply that all schismatics incur such a doom ? You deny. 
But think again ! You now assent.1 But does a schismatic 
who is conscious of  right incur it ? You deny. But think 
again! You now assent. But was it not said by the 
Exalted One: 'There  is a kind  of  schismatic, Upali,  ivho 
incurs disaster,  purgatory,  misery for  an ceon, who is incur-
able ; there is a kind  of  schismatic, Upali,  who does  not incur 
such a doom,  who is not incurable '?2 
Hence it is not right to say that a schismatic who is 
conscious of  [stating what is] right incurs such a doom. 
[9] U.—But  was it not said by the Exalted One: ' He 
who breaks  up the Order  is doomed  to remain for  an ceon in 
states of  suffering  and  woe'? 
'He  who delights  in party strife,  and  adheres  not to the 
Dhamma, is cut off  from  Arahantship.3 Having  broken up 
the Order  when it was at peace, he must be cooked  for  an ceon 
in purgatory' ?4 
Hence surely a schismatic incurs retribution immediately 
after  death. 
2. Of  Insight. 
Controverted  Point.—That'  insight' is not for  the average 
man. 
From the Commentary.—'Insight' (nana) is of  two kinds—worldly 
and spiritual. The former  is intellection concerned with various 
1
 He denies, because he is judging such an one to be convinced that 
his side is in the right; he assents, in the case of  one who knows that 
right is on the other side.—Comy.  Cf .  Anguttara-Nik.,  i. 85 f . 
Similarly in the following  change of  reply.—Comy. 
2
 Vinaya,  ii. 205, v. 202, 203; Vinaya  Texts,  iii. 268. The latter 
mistakes bad doctrine or discipline for  good, good doctrine or discipline 
for  bad, and records his opinion by his acts. His intentions are good. 
In the Vmaya  passage atthi, 'there is,' is rendered as siya, 
'there may be.' 
3
 Literally, from  the yogakkhema , or safety,  salvation. Cut off 
that is, while this world-cycle lasts.
4
 Ibid. 
attainments, and in noting the course of  karma by way of  righteous 
acts of  giving, etc.; the latter is intuition concerned with the Paths 
and their Fruits, Path-intuition being learned by analysis of  truth.1 
Now some, like the Hetuvadins, failing  to distinguish this, accept only 
Path-intuition as insight.2 Hence they deny it in the average man. 
[1] Th.—But  you imply that a worldly man has no 
analytic discernment, no analytic understanding, no ability 
to investigate or examine, no faculty  of  research, no ability 
to mark well, observe closely, mark repeatedly.3 Is not the 
opposite true ? 
[2] Again, you admit, do you not ? that there is not one 
of  the four  Rupa-jlianas or of  the four  Arupajhanas to 
which a man of  the world may not attain, and that he 
is capable of  liberality towards the Brethren as to the four 
requisites : raiment and so forth.  Surely then it is not 
right to say a worldly man can have no insight. 
[3] H.—If  he can have insight, does he by that insight 
recognize the truth about Ill , eliminate its cause, realize 
its cessation, develop the Path going thereto ? You 
admit that he does not. Therefore,  etc. . . . 
3. Of  the Guards  of  Purgatory. 
Controverted  Point.—That  in the purgatories there are 
no guards. 
From the Commentary.—Some—for  instance, the Andhakas—hold 
that there are no such beings, but that the hell-doomed karmas in the 
shape of  hell-keepers purge the sufferers. 
[1] Th.—Do  you imply that there are no punishments 
inflicted4 in the purgatories ? You maintain the contrary ? 
But you cannot maintain both propositions. 
1
 The instantaneous penetration (ekabhisamaya) of  truth by 
one who has reached the Path is intuitive, but he is also able to 
analyze truth. See Appendix : article 4. 
2
 On the ambiguity of  this term, see also II. 2. 
3
 Cf. Dhamma-sangani, § 16. All these are synonyms of  nana.— 
Comy.  We have brought out the force  of  the prefix  'pa' in the 
first  two (panna, pajanana) . 
4
 Kamma-karanani . On this term, see JPTS,1884,76,  and 
references  given. 
[2] You admit that on earth there are both punishments 
and executioners ? Yet you deny that the latter exist 
in purgatory. .. . 
[3] Moreover, was it not said by the Exalted One : 
'Not  Vessabhu  nor yet the Petas'  King, 
Soma,  Yama,  or King  Vessarana— 
The  deeds  that  -were his own do  punish him 
Who  ending  here attains to other worlds'?1 
Hence there are guards in purgatory. 
[4] Again, was it not said by the Exalted One: ' Him, 
bhikkhus,  hell's  guards  torture2 with the fivefold  punishment; 
they thrust  a hot iron stake  through one hand,  then another 
through the other hand,  then one through the foot,  then another 
through the other foot;  they thrust  a hot iron stake  through 
the middle  of  the chest. And  he thereupon feels  painful, 
piercing,  intolerable  suffering,  nor does  he die  till  that  evil 
deed  of  his is cancelled 
[5] Again, was it not said [further]  by the Exalted One : 
'Him,  bhikkhus.  hell's  guards  make to lie down  and  flay  him 
until  hatchets . . . they place him head  downwards  and  flay 
him with knives . . . they bind  him to a chariot  and  drive 
him to and  fro  over burning,  blazing,  glowing  ground  . . . 
they lift  him up on to a great  hill  of  burning,  blazing, 
white - hot coals and  roll  him down  the fiery  slope . . . 
they double  him up and  cast him into a hot brazen jar, 
burning,  blazing,  glowing,  where he boils, coining up like  a 
bubble of  foam,  then sinking,  going now to this side,  now 
to that.4 There  he suffers  fierce  and  bitter  pain, nor does  he 
die  till  that  evil karma is cancelled.  Him,  bhikkhus,  they 
cast into the Great  Purgatory.  Now  this : 
1
 We cannot trace these verses, hence cannot indicate the context. 
2
 Our text has kammang karenti ; the Nikaya  (PTS edition) 
has . . . karonti . 
3
 Majjhima-Nik.,  iii. 182 f.;  Anguttara-Nik.,  i. 141. The Br. 
translation here and below reads: 'and he dies till that evil deed,' etc. 
4
 Milinda,  ii. 261 (translation); Jataka,  iii. 46 (text). 
In  districts  measured  out four-square  four-doored, 
Iron  the ramparts  hounding  it, with iron roofed, 
Iron  its soil welded  by fiery1 heat, 
Spreading  a hundred  leagues it stands for aye'?2 
Hence there surely are guards in purgatory. 
1
 The Br. and the Nikaya  have jalita ; the PTS alita maybe 
a misprint. 
2
 Majjhima-Nik., ibid.  ; Anguttara-Nik.,  ibid.
 
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