Points of  Controversy 
OR 
Subjects of  Discourse 
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU 
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA 
BY 
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A 
AND 
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
7. Of  Assurance which is not Final. 
Controverted  Point.—That  the average man may possess 
final  assurance.1 
From the Commentary.—Certain  of  the Uttarapathakas, judging by 
the Sutta—'once immersed  is so once for  all,' etc.2—hold the view 
above stated. 
[1] Th.—Do  you mean that he has that assurance even 
if  he commit the worst crimes—matricide, parricide, 
Arahanticide, wounding a Buddha, breaking up the Order ? 
'Nay,' you say.3 
Again, could an average man holding that assurance feel 
doubt about it? 'Yes,' you say. Then he cannot feel  assured. 
[2] Surely you agree that, if  he feel  assured, he cannot 
feel  doubt.4 Now has he put away doubt ? 'No,' you say.5 
But think! You now assent.6 Then has he put away 
doubt by the First Path ? or the Second, Third, or Fourth 
Path? How, then? 
U.—By a bad path. 
Th.—[Do  you tell me that] a bad path leads aright, 
goes to the destruction [of  lust, hate, etc.], goes to en-
lightenment, is immune from  intoxicants, is undefiled  ? Is 
it not the opposite of  all this ? . . . 
[3] Could the Annihilationist view be adopted by a 
person assured and convinced of  the truth of  the Eternalist 
1
 Accanta , i.e., ati-anta, very final.  The Br. translator 
renders this by 'true,' because all assurance for  a finite  period is not a 
true assurance. Thus our conviction that the sun will rise to-morrow, 
though it is exceedingly likely to be justified,  is based only on a belief 
that no cosmic dislocation will intervene, and is therefore  no 'true' 
assurance either. 
2
 See next page. 
3 'The heretic, incorrigible as a tree-stump, is more or less assured 
of  cherishing his fixed  opinions in other future  existences. But the 
matricide, etc., is assured of  retribution in the next existence only. 
Hence he must reject.'—Comy. 
4 'He assents, because a man cannot doubt his own opinion if  it be 
repeatedly cherished.'—Comy, 
5
 'Because it has not been put away by the Ariyan Path.'— Comy. 
6
 Doubt not overriding the cherished opinion.— Comy
view?1 'Yes,' you say. Surely then the assurance of  the 
average man in his Annihilationist convictions is no 'in-
finite  assurance.' 
[4] If  you now deny in reply to my question, I ask again, 
has he put away [the Annihilationist view] ? If  so, by which 
of  the Four Paths ? You reply, as before,  ' By a bad path.' 
That is to say, by a bad path he puts away a bad view. . . . 
[5, 6] A similar argument may be put forward  for  an 
Annhilationist who adopts the Eternalist view. 
[7] U.—If  I am wrong,2 was it not said by the Exalted 
One: ' Take  the case, bhikkhus,  of  a person whose mental 
states are entirely  black-hearted3 and  immoral—he it is who, 
once immersed,  is so once for all'?4 
Surely then any average man can attain infinite 
assurance. 
[8] Th.—Is  that which you have quoted your reason for 
maintaining your proposition ? You admit it is. Now the 
Exalted One said further:  ' Take  the case, bhikkhus,  of  a 
person who, having come to the surface,  is immersedNow 
is this [supposed to be] happening all the time ?5 Of  course 
not. .. . [9] But again he said: ' Take  the case, bhikkhus, 
of  a person who, having emerged,  so [remains];  of  one who, 
having emerged,  discerns,  glances around;  of  one who, having 
emergedf  swims across; of  one who, having emerged,  wins a 
footing  on the shore.'
Now is each of  these persons doing so all the time? 
And does any of  these cases furnish  you with a reason 
for  saying that any average person can have final  assurance 
[in his convictions]? 
1
 In the eternal duration of  soul and universe. The former  view 
holds that the soul ends at death. Dialogues,  i. 50, § 32. 
2
 In the Commentary,  PTS edition, p. 181, line 14, read puccha 
paravadissa. Suttassa . .. . 
3
Ekanta-kalaka...dhamma , 
4
 Anguttara-Nik.,  iv. 11, the 'water-parable' of  seven classes of 
persons. Discussed in Puggalar-Pannatti, 71. 
5
 The Theravadin asks this question in order to show the necessity 
of  a critical study, by research, of  the spirit of  Texts, without relying 
too much on the letter.—Comy. 
8. Of  the Moral  Controlling  Powers.1
Controverted  Point.—That  the five  moral controlling 
powers—faith,  effort,  mindfulness,  concentration, under-
standing—are not valid as 'controlling powers ' in worldly 
matters. 
From the Commentary.—This  is an opinion held by some, like the 
Hetuvadins and Mahingsasakas. 
[1] Th.—Do  you imply that there can be no faith,  or 
effort,  or mindfulness,  or concentration, or understanding 
in worldly concerns ? You deny. [2] On the other hand, 
you maintain that there is faith,  etc., in such a connection, 
but that none of  them avail for  moral control. 
[3] You admit that both mind and mind as a controlling 
power are valid in worldly matters. And you admit a similar 
validity in both joy and joy as a controlling power, in both 
psychic life  and psychic life  as a controlling power. 
[4] Why then exempt those five  ? 
[5] Again, you admit that there is both a spiritual2 
faith  and a controlling power of  that faith—why  not both 
a worldly faith  and a worldly controlling power o f  faith  ? 
And so for  the rest. [6] Why accept in the one case, deny 
in the other ? 
[7] Moreover, was it not said by the Exalted One : ' And  I, 
bhikkhus,  with the eyes of  a Buddha  surveying the world,  satv 
beings living whose vision loas dim with dust,  in some but 
slightly,  greatly  in others,  beings whose faculties  were here keen, 
there blunt,  of  good  disposition  . . . apt to learn . . . some 
among them discerning  the danger  and  defect  of  [rebirth  in] 
other worlds'?3 
Surely then the five  moral controlling powers are valid in 
worldly matters. 
1
 Or five  faculties  or factors  of 'moral sense' (indriya) . See 
above, pp. 16 ; 65 f.;  194, n. 1. These five  are pre-eminent in doctrine 
as ranking among the 'thirty-seven factors  of  Enlightenment.' 
2
 Or supra-mundane and mundane. 
3
 Dialogues,  ii. 31 f .  The two lacunae (of  one word each) occur in 
both Br. and PTS editions.
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