Points of Controversy
OR
Subjects of Discourse
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA
BY
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A
AND
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
3. Of the Four Truths.
Controverted Point.—That the Four Truths are uncon-
ditioned.
From the Commentary.—Some, like the Pubbaseliyas, hold this
belief, deriving it from the Sutta : ' These four, bhikkhus, are stable,
constant,' etc.
3
They draw a distinction between a 'fact' and a
'truth,' considering that the former is conditioned, the latter uncondi-
tioned. In the Third Truth they disallow the existence of any corre-
sponding fact.
4
[1] Th.—Do you then also admit [not one, but] four
Nibbanas? For i f you do, is there among these four a
boundary, division, line or interstice, different degrees as
to loftiness, excellence or sublimity ?
5
. . .
[2] You affirm, do you not, that each Truth is uncon-
ditioned. Take the first Truth on [the fact and nature of]
Ill: is Ill itself unconditioned ? You deny—that is, you
mean that bodily ill, mental ill, grief, lamentation, melan-
choly or despair is conditioned ? Or the second Truth
on the cause of Ill—is that cause unconditioned? You
deny. . . . Then you must equally deny that desires of
sense, desire for [after-] life, or desire to end life, is uncon-
ditioned? Or the fourth Truth of the Path to Cessation of
3
See below.
4
Lakkhana-saccang (Truth) is the statement of the charac-
teristics of a vatthu-saccang (fact).
5
See VI. 1, § 1; II. 11.
Ill—is the Path1
itself unconditioned? You deny. . . .
Then you do not mean that right views, right inten-
tions . . . right concentration are unconditioned ?
[3] You admit then that Ill , its Cause, the Path are con-
ditioned, and all the factors of those facts are conditioned,
but deny that the [abstract] statement of each fact as a
'Truth' is conditioned2
—which cannot be. . . .
[4] Take now the Third Truth on the Cessation of Ill—
is Cessation unconditioned? 'Yes,' you say?3 Why then,
if the First Truth is unconditioned, is not Ill uncon-
ditioned ? Or the Cause ? Or the Path ? [5] In all but
the Third Truth, you maintain that the true thing is
conditioned—why not in the Third ?
[6] P.—But if I am wrong, why was it said by the
Exalted One: 'These four things, bhikkhus, are stable, con-
stant, immutable. Which are the four I " This is Ill!"—
this, bhikkhus, is stable, constant, immutable. " This is the
cause of Ill . . . the Cessation of Ill . . . the course leading
to the Cessation of Ill!"—this, bhikkhus, is stable, constant,
immutable. These are the four ' ? 4
Surely then the Four Truths are unconditioned.5
4. Of the Four Immaterial Spheres [of Life and Thought].
Controverted Point.—That the sphere of infinite space is
unconditioned.
From the Commentary.—Because of the Word, 'the four Imma-
terial are imperturbable,' some hold they are all unconditioned.
[1] Th.—Are you implying that it is in this respect
identical with Nibbana, the Shelter, the Cave, the Refuge,
1
The Ariyan or Noble Eightfold Path, not the Four Paths. The
latter are really one, divided into four stages, each of which has eight
factors (p. 188, n. 5).
2
In the PTS edition (p. 323) the line Dukkhasaccang asan-
khatam should read . . . sankhatam.
3
'Cessation' (nirodha ) is a, synonym for Nibbana—the extinc-
tion of Ill and its Causes. Hence the opponent's view.
4
Samyutta-Nik., v. 430.
5
In the sense of being eternally, constantly, not occasionally, true.
the Goal, the Past-Decease, the Ambrosial? You deny.
. . . Then you cannot so class it. If you affirm, we may
then have two Unconditioneds, two Nibbanas. .. .
[2] You admit, do you not, that the sphere of infinite
space is a form of rebirth, a destination, an abode of
beings, a sequel in living, a matrix of birth, a station for
reborn consciousness, an acquiring o f individuality ? Then
is the unconditioned to be so described ? Of course not. . . .
Is there karma which brings us to rebirth in that
sphere ? 'Yes,' you say. Then is there karma which
brings about rebirth in the unconditioned ? Of course you
deny. . . . There are beings who for their deserts are
reborn in that sphere of infinite space, but are there any
who for their deserts are reborn in the unconditioned ? Of
course you deny. .. .
[S] Do any beings become born, decay, die, decease, and
spring up again in that sphere ? Yes ? But surely not in
the unconditioned. . . .
Does mind in its four constituents
1
exist in that sphere ?
Yes ? But hardly in the unconditioned. . . . You cannot
call the latter a plane of life with four constituents, as is
the former.
[4] Opponent— But did not the Exalted One say that
the four Immaterial spheres are imperturbable?2 Surely
then we may call them unconditioned.
5. Of the attaining to Cessation.
Controverted Point—That the attainment of Cessation is
unconditioned.
From the Commentary.—By the attainment of Cessation is here
meant the suspension of conscious procedure in Jhana. As something
1
Of the five 'aggregates' of being, only 'body' is absent.
2
Aneja , ananja ; Anguttara-Nik., ii, 184: he who has
entered into the Jhanas so called is said to have won the Imper-
turbable.
done., attained, it is called ' completed,' but it cannot be spoken of as
conditioned or unconditioned, since the features of one state or the
other are absent. But some, as the Andhakas and Uttarapathakas,
hold that, because it is not conditioned, it is therefore unconditioned.
[1] Th.—Does this mean that this state is Nibbana,
the Shelter, etc. ? You deny. Then are both similarly
described as unconditioned ? You affirm ? Then are there
two unconditioneds . . . two Nibbanas ? . . .
[2] Are there any who attain to Cessation, acquire it,
cause it to rise, to keep rising, set up, induce, produce,
bring to pass, make to be born, to happen ? If so, can you
so speak of the unconditioned ? Of course not. . . .
[8] Is there apparent such a thing as a purging through,
emerging from,
1
Cessation ? If so, is there the same from
the unconditioned ? Of course not. .. .
In attaining Cessation, first speech, then action, then
consciousness ceases. Can you so speak of attaining the
unconditioned ?
In emerging from Cessation, first consciousness, then
action, then speech occurs. Can you so speak of emerging
from the unconditioned ?
[4] After emerging from Cessation, one is in touch with
three contacts : that of the void, of the signless, of the
unhankered-after.
2
Can you so speak of emerging from
the unconditioned ? Or that, when one emerges from
Cessation, consciousness is inclined for, tends to, takes
shelter in solitude?
[5] A. U.—If we are wrong, we would just ask you, Is
Cessation conditioned? No, you say; then it must be
unconditioned.3
1
These two terms refer to the attainment of Fruition after
emergence.—Comy.
2
See above, pp. 142, n. 4, 143, n. 1.
3
Indian logic recognizes four alternatives to our two: is, is not,
is and is not, neither is nor is not. The reply here would be in terms
of the last. The state is outside that 'universe of thought' which com-
prises conditioned and its opposite, as much, as green is outside music.
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