Points of Controversy
OR
Subjects of Discourse
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA
BY
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A
AND
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
3. Of the Pleasures of Sense.
Controverted Point.—That the kama-sphere means only
the fivefold pleasures of sense.
From the Commentary.—This discourse is intended to teach those
who, like the Pubbaseliyas, contract the meaning of kama-dhatu
(element or datum of desire) to that of kama-guna (pleasurable
sensations), ignoring the difference in the meaning of the two terms.
It is true that in the Sutta—' There are these five kinds of pleasurable
sensations, bhikkhus'1
—the whole world of kamadhatu is im-
plied. But generally kamadhatu may stand for vatthukarna ,
objects of sense - desire; kilesakama , corrupt, worldly desires ;
and kamabhava , or the eleven lowest planes of existence (from
purgatory to the six lowest heavens). In the first term kama
means 'to be desired'; in the second, it means both ' to be desired'
and ' to desire.' But in the last term kama means 'to be desired'
or 'desiring,' or 'place where objects of sense happen.' Dhatu , as
always, means self-existing ultimate, without entity, non-substantial.
2
[1] Th.—You admit, do you not, that desire, intention,
zest, and joy, and the passion or lust
3
that is involved in
each, are all bound up with the fivefold pleasures of sense?
4
How then can you maintain that the kama-life is only those
pleasures?
[2] Do you mean that human organs of sense are not co-
extensive with kama-life, the five organs of external sense
and the co-ordinating sense, or mind ? No,5 you say
(meaning only the pleasures of sense in your proposition) ;
but think again as to mind. . . . Yes, you now say, mind
is not kama-life.6
But was it not said by the Exalted One:
1
Majjhima-Nik, i. 85. See Digha-Nik., iii. 234, for other
references.
2
The PTS edition of the Commentary, through either corrupt
MSS., or printing errors, or defective punctuation, is here not
always intelligible. A perusal of the Br. edition will make the
meaning clearer.
3
Here kamadhatu means kilesakama.—Comy.
4
As objects, kamagunaramnano.—Comy .
5
The opponent does not reject these as objects of desire (vatthu-
kama).—Comy.
6
He recollects the sublimer and also the supramundane or spiritual
work of mind.— Comy. Read te-bhumaka-mano (ib.).
' Fivefold the world's sense-pleasures be,
And mind as sixth, our lore doth rede.
Whoso therein doth purge desire,
1
Is thus from ill ancl sorrow freed' ?
Hence it cannot be said that the kama-life does not in-
clude the mind.
[3] Again, can you say that the pleasures of sense
amount to a sphere of life,2
a destiny, a realm of beings,
to renewed life, to a matrix, a station for consciousness, an
acquiring of individuality ? Is there karma leading to
them ? Are there beings to be reborn in them ? Do beings
get born, grow old, die, decease, get reborn 'in' sense-
pleasures ? Are there the five aggregates in them ? Are
they a five-mode existence? Are Buddhas Supreme, Silent
Buddhas, Chief Pairs of disciples3 reborn in them? [4] All
these things you can predicate of the ' kama-element,' but
not one of them of the pleasures of sense.
[5] P.—But was it not said by the Exalted One: Bhik-
khus, there are these fivefold kdma-ple astir es—ivhich are
they? Objects desirable, meet, agreeable, dear, connected
with 'kama,' and seductive, are cognizable by sight, hearing,
smell, taste, and touch—these are the five kinds of kama-
pleasures'?4
Hence surely the kama-element is only those five.
4. Of Sense-Desires.
Controverted Point.—Whether the subjective sense-desires
or the objective five fields of sense constitute kama's.
From the Commentary.—Going merely by the Sutta last quoted
above, some, like the Pubbaseliyas, hold the latter view. The
1 Samyutta-Nik., i. 16.
2 Here kamadhatu = kama-bhava or -loka .
3 See above, I. 3, §§ 9,10.
4 Anguttara-Nik., iii. 411, etc.
Theravadin shows that 'corruptions' alone truly constitute sen-
suality.1
[1] is verbatim = § 1 in VIII. 3, and [2] is verbatim=§ 5,
save for the substitution of ' Hence sensuality consists in
only the five fields of sense-object.'
[3] Th.—But was it not also said by the Exalted One:
'There are these fivefold pleasures of sense, bhikkhus: which
are the five? Objects desirable, . . . adapted to sense-desires
(kama), and seductive are cognizable by sight, hearing, etc. . . .
five kinds of [objects associated with] sense-pleasure. Never-
theless, bhikkhus, these are not sense-desires; they are called
in the Ariyan discipline [objects of] sense-pleasures [kama-
guna]. For kama is a man's lustful intention' ;2
' The manifold of objects3 in the world—
This in itself is not 'desires of sense."
Lustful intention4 is man's sense-desires.
That manifold of objects doth endure;
The will thereto the wise exterminate '
Hence it is wrong to say that just the five kinds of sense-
objects constitute sense-desires.
1
Read kamabhavang , 'state of having kama's.' The translators'
difficulties increase in this discourse. But the Indian conception of
all the universe, save the higher and highest heavens, in terms of
'desire,' is of great interest. See Ency. Religion and Ethics, 'Desire,
Buddhist,' by Mrs. Rhys Davids.
2
Anguttara-Nik., iii. 411. Br. does not support the reading of the
PTS text—Te ariyassa . . .—as verse, but agrees with Edmund
Hardy's reading in the PTS edition of the Nikaya, which we have
mainly followed. Cf. ibid., the many differences of reading in the
MSS. consulted. The gathas occur, as above, in Samyutta-, i. 22.
In the Anguttara line 3 is prefixed to the verses, and repeated as line 4
(in translation above, line 3 in text).
3
The Pali for this phrase, yani citrani—'the varied things
which'—is paraphrased in the Anguttara Commentary with 'objects':
citra-citrarammanani.
4
Ib., paraphrased as sankappavasena uppannarage.
5
Or 'discipline' (vinayanti).
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