Points of Controversy
OR
Subjects of Discourse
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA
BY
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A
AND
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
7. Of Trance.
Controverted Point—That to attain cessation of con-
sciousness is supramundane.
From the Commentary.—Inasmuch as what is called [trance or]
attaining cessation of feeling and perception is not a positive mental
state, but is the suspension of the mental aggregates, it is neither a
mundane nor a supramundane state. Some, however, like the
Hetuvadins, hold that since it is certainly not mundane, it must be
supramundane.
The argument is similar to that in XV. 5 [1], and 6 [2].
8. The Same (continued).
Controverted Point.—That to attain cessation of con-
sciousness is mundane.
[1] Th.—You must, then, be prepared to classify it as
one of the things admittedly mundane—the five aggregates,
or as belonging to one of the three spheres of life, that
of sense, or the Rupa or Arupa worlds—which you refuse
to do.
[2] Similar to 6 [2].
9. Of Trance (iii.).
Controverted Point.—That a person may die while in a
state of trance.
From the Commentary — The Rajagirikas and others hold that
since life is so uncertain, even one who has attained in Jhana to trance
may die, no less than anyone else. The argument shows that there
is1 a time for dying and for not dying.
[1] Th.—You must, then, admit that, while in that state,
he has all the mental symptoms2 betokening death—to wit,
in mental contact, feeling, perception, volition, conscious-
ness. But you agree that all moribund mental symptoms
are absent. Hence your proposition falls through.
[2] You will further agree with this: not only that for
one in a state of trance is all mental life in abeyance, but
also that death is accompanied by contactual, emotional,
volitional, and cognitive symptoms.2
[3] Moreover, can poison, weapons, or fire affect the body
of one in trance ? You deny.3 You assert, on the con-
trary, that those causes of death cannot affect him. Then,
can you maintain your proposition ?
[4] Or do you now maintain that poison, weapons, or
fire can affect his body?4 Then, is his attainment not
genuine? .. .
R.5—But in opposing my proposition you imply that
there must be some principle of certainty (or uniformity)
by which one is assured of not dying while in trance. If
you say that such an assurance does not exist, your
proposition cannot stand.
[5] Th.—But one who is enjoying visual consciousness
is not dying, even though there be no uniform principle of
certainty by which he is assured of being kept from death.
Hence I assert as much of one who is in trance.
1
Read, for samapannaya, samanaya.
2
This word is not in the Pali text.
3
Because of the abnormal power of his attainment.—Comy.
4
'He assents because of the body's natural liabilities. Hence there
is no abnormal power in the attainment.'—Comy.
5
In Commentary, PTS edition, read, for sakavadissa , para -
vadissa .
10. Of Trance as a Means of reaching the Unconscious
Sphere.
Controverted Point.—That trance conduces to rebirth in
the unconscious sphere.
From the Commentary.—Some, like the Hetuvadins, make no
distinction between the two kinds of trance-attainment: the merely-
mundane, practised by worldly folks, and the supramundane, or
spiritual. The former does conduce to rebirth in the sphere of un-
conscious life, the latter does not.
[1] Th.—Can you say of anyone who has attained to
trance that [in his character] are the three moral conditions
—absence of greed, of hate, of dulness, also faith, energy,
mindfulness, concentration, and understanding ? Is not
the contrary [usually] the case ? . . .
[2] You admit of course* that one in trance is without
mental reaction, feeling, perception, volition, cognition?
But you cannot maintain that a Path1 can be practised in
the absence of these.
[3] Finally, your proposition implies that all who attain
to trance are tending to rebirth in the Unconscious Sphere
—which you must deny. . . .
[4] H.—But you admit, anyway, that in trance one is
unconscious, and in that sphere one is unconscious. Hence
I maintain that this tendency is a fact.
11. Of Karma and its Accumulation.
Controverted Point.—That karma is one thing, its accumu-
lation2 is another.
From the Commentary.—They who hold this view, for instance the
Andhakas and Sammitiyas, judge that the accumulating of karma
goes on automatically, independently of moral action, of mental action.
1
Magga, 'path,' is used, more generally, to denote a systematic
' means,' or method conducing to celestial rebirth. It is only the
Ariyan Path or Paths that are means leading away from rebirth.—
Bud.Psy. Eth., pp. 43 f.; 71 f.; 82 f ,
2
Upacaya may be rendered by 'conservation.'
[1] Th.—Are you then prepared to admit that each
mental phase—mental reaction, feeling, perception, voli-
tion, cognition, also faith, energy, mindfulness, concen-
tration, understanding, also the ten corruptions (kilesa's)
—is a different thing from its accumulation ? Of course
not. Then neither can you affirm your proposition.
[2] Again, do you imply that karmic accumulation is
coexistent with karma ? You deny ? But think! You
assent.1 Then [a fortiori] meritorious (or good) karma is
coexistent with good karmic accumulation? No? Nay,
you must admit it is. Then [it follows that] karma, [being
inseparably] conjoined with feeling, is both coexistent with
its accumulation, and also inseparably conjoined with corre-
sponding feeling.
[3] Similarly for demeritorious (or bad) karma.
[4] Again, you admit of course that karma is coexistent
with consciousness and has a mental object, but you do not
admit as much of its accumulation. That is to say, you
agree that karma, being coexistent with consciousness, is
broken of f [as mental process] when consciousness is
broken off . But, by your view of the different nature of
karmic accumulation, you hold that when consciousness
stops, karmic accumulation does not [necessarily] stop.
So that we may get a cessation of karma as conscious
process, and a continuation of karmic accumulation as
product!
[5] You admit, further, that karmic accumulation is
where karma is.2 Surely this implies that an act (kamma)
and its (accumulation or) conservation is one and the same
thing. . . . And that, the conservation of karmic energy
being where karma is, result is produced from that conserva-
tion ; and that you must conclude that there is no differ-
1 'Karma is " conjoined with consciousness " ; its accumulation, by
the thesis, is automatic, hence the vacillation.'—Comy.
2 Kammamhi—kamme sati, or patitthite. 'Where
there is karma, or where it is established, the "accumulating" begins,
but the latter lasts till results mature. Just as the seed retains all
the plant-energy till it sprouts.'—Comy.
ence in kind between karma, its conservation and its result.1
Yet this you deny.
Now you have admitted that karma has a mental object,2
and you also admit [of course] that result, which is pro-
duced from the conservation of karma, has a mental object.
But you deny that the conservation is of this nature, even
while you admit that where karma is, there, too, is its con-
servation, producing the result! . . .
[6] Finally, was it not said by the Exalted One: Here,
Puma, is one who plans activities in deed, tuord and thought,
either malevolent or benevolent. In consequence hereof he is
reborn in a world either of malevolence or of benevolence;
and when his mental reaction to good and bad shall set in,
his sensations are in accordance herewith, and his feel-
ings are a mixture of pleasure and pain, as is the case with
human beings, with certain of the devas, and ivith some of the
fallen angels.3 Now thus, Punna, is the rebirth of creatures
conspicuous and obscure:4—by that which he does is he reborn,
and being reborn mental reactions affect him. And so I
say, Punna, that beings are the heirs of their own actions
(karma) ?5
Hence it is not right to say that conservation of karma is
a thing apart from karma itself.
1
He asks concerning the oneness of these three.—Comy,
2
See above, § 4.
3
Vinipatika , asuras.
4
Bhutabhutassa. Cf. the term bhavabhavesu, Pss. of
the Brethren, 305, n. 4.
5
Majjhima-Nik., i. 390.
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