Kathavatthu - Of Renouncing Evil

Points of Controversy
OR
Subjects of Discourse
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA
BY
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A
AND
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A

5 .Of Renouncing Evil.
Controverted Point.—That the average man7
renounces
sensuous passions and ill-will.

7
Puthujjano, literally 'one-of-the-many-folk,' a worldling,
l'homme moyen sensuel, to quote the famous phrase of Quetelet.


Commentary.—This question is asked to break down the opinion
held, for instance, at present by the Sammitiyas, that an average man
who achieves Jhana, who understands the Truths and becomes a
Never-Returner, renounced sensuous passions and ill-will while he was
as yet only an average man of the world.
[1, 2] Theravadin.—You maintain that, as average man,
he does renounce them. Now by 'renouncing' I imply
that he renounces for ever, without remainder,1 severing
all connection with them, them and their roots, and all
desire for them, and all latent bias toward them; renounces
them by Ariyan insight, by the Ariyan path; renounces
them while experiencing the immutable; renounces them
while realizing the Fruit of the Never-Returner. This you
deny.
And if, for 'renouncing,' you substitute 'arresting,' I
claim the same implications, and you deny them.
[3, 4] The .person who works for the realization of the
Never-Returner's Fruit:—he renounces, he arrests in this
thorough-going way—on that we are agreed. But does the
average man? You deny this [no less than I].
[5, 6] But if you apply these words ' renounce,' ' arrest'
[in your limited meaning] to the average man, you must
also apply them, as meaning just so much and no more,
to the candidate for the Fruit of the Never-Returner.
[7, 8] By what path (or means) does your average man
renounce sensuous passions and ill-will?
S.—By the path that belongs to the Rupa-sphere
2
Th.—Now does that path lead men out [of the round of
rebirth] ?3 does it go to extinction [of Ill] , to Enlighten-
ment, to disaccumulation ?3 Is it clear of intoxicants,

1
The orthodox view is of a gradual giving up, from the First Path
onward, residua lingering'till the Third Path is past. See above, p. 66
[33]. The Stream-Winner is no longer 'average man.'
2
I.e., to the plane of a sublimated material existence, to wit, a more
ethereal frame, sight and hearing. Man and the lower devas occupy
the Kama-sphere of full sensuous endowment as we know it. On this
'path,' Bud. Psy. Eth., p. 43 f . The Rupa-sphere, or sublimated material
heavens, would be the limit of the average man's aspirations.
3
On this term see Bud. Psy. Ethics, 82, n 2
T.S. V.


fetters, ties, floods, bonds, hindrances, uninfected,1 clear
of what makes for grasping and for corruption ?2 Is it not
true, on the other hand, that this path is not any of these
things? How, then, can you say that by it an average
man renounces sensuous passions and ill-will ?
[9, 10] You agree that the path practised by the person
who works for the realization of the Never-Returner's Fruit
possesses all those qualities. But you should agree that
that path belonging to the Rupa-sphere possesses the same
qualities [since you claim that by it the average man
renounces even as the Never-Returner renounces]. But
you admit it has the opposite qualities ? Then, by parity of
reasoning, you should find those opposite qualities in the
path practised by the Never-Returner [since you claim
that by it the latter arrives at the same renunciation as
does the average man].
[11] You say that an average man, who is done with
lusting after sensuous pleasures,
3
as soon as he has com-
prehended the truth,
4
becomes forthwith established in the
fruition of the Never-Returner
5
—why not add in Arahant-
ship ? "Why stop short of this ?
You must also admit that he has been practising the
First, Second, and Third Paths at the same time, realizing
the respective Fruits at the same time, and experiencing a
combination of the respective contacts, feelings, perceptions,
volitions, cognitions, believings, endeavours, reflections,
and concentrations [all at different stages of evolution]
which characterize each upward step.
[12] Or, if he does not arrive [at the Third Fruit] in this
way, by what path does he arrive? 'By the path of the
Never-Returner,' say you? Yet you deny that the re-
nouncing of the three fetters—theory of a soul, doubt,
1
Read aparamattho . •
2
On all these terms see op. cit., 291-817.
3
Kamesu vitarago, The latter word is one of the stock of
Arahant terms; see above, p. 67 [47].
4
Dhamma , or Norm.
5
In other words, you make him leap at a bound from No-path to
the consummation of the Third Path.


and the contagion of mere rule and ritual—belongs to the
work of the Never-Returning Path. Nay, you must admit
it [since you leave your average man no other path],
although it was said, was it not, by the Exalted One that
the Fruit of the First Path was got by the renouncing of
those three fetters ?
1
[18] Once more, you deny that, by that Third Path, gross,
sensuous desires and the coarser forms of ill-will are re-
nounced. Nay, but you are bound to admit this, for was it
not said by the Exalted One that the Fruit of the Second
Path was got by the reducing sensuous passions and ill-
will to a minimum ?
2
Finally, by your previous assertion concerning the
average man's comprehending the truth (§11), you are
bound to admit, though you deny it, that all who compre-
hend the truth, the Norm, are established in the Never-
Eeturner's Fruit as soon as that comprehension arises.
[14] S.—But if the controverted question is to be answered
by ' No,' was it not said by the Exalted One :
' In days of old on earth there lived
Six teachers whom men flocked to hear.
No flesh they ate for pity's sake,
Freed from the bonds of sense-desires.
No taste had they for fleshly lusts.
In Brahma-heaven they found rebirth.
' Disciples too of them there were,
Souls by the hundred not a few.
No flesh they ate for pity's sake,
Freed from the bonds of sense-desires.
No taste had they for fleshly lusts.
In Brahma-heaven they found rebirth' ?3
1 Anguttara, Nik., i. 231; ii. 89, etc.
2
Samyutta-Nik., v. 357, etc.; Anguttara-Nik., 232 ; ii. 89.
3
Anguttara-N., iii. 373. The Opponent's argument is obscured, in
English, by the want of association between the terms Kama-(loka)
and Brahma—i.e., Rupa-loka. 'Sense,' ' fleshly' belong to the former
term. Renouncing all that, the persons of the poem are reborn,
like Never-Returners, in the upper heavens.


Is the Suttanta thus ?
[15] Th.—Yes. But was it not said by the Exalted
One:—
' Verily, bhikkhus, I say unto you that this teacher, Sunetta,
though he lived long maintaining life on earth, did not get
released from birth, decay, death, grief, lamentation, suffering,
sorroiv, and despair. Why was he not released from ill ?
Because he had not enlightenment nor penetration concerning
four things. What were they ? The virtue, the concentration,
the understanding, the emancipation of the Ariyan. Once,
bhikkhus, these four are understood and penetrated, then is
the thirst for becoming cut off, then is the lust for becoming
perished, then is there no more coming back to be. . . .
'The virtuous habit and the mind intent,
Insight and utmost range of liberty:
All these are known to GOTAMA renowned.
His understanding mastering all its truth,
The Buddha to the Brethren taught the Norm;
Our Teacher, Seer, Ender of all Ill,
Perfected life and wholly passed away' ?1
Is the Suttanta thus? Hence it is not right to say
' the average man [as such] renounces sensuous passions
and ill-will.'

1
Anguttara-Nik., iv. 104 f . (The last line expands the one Pali
word: parinibbuto.)