Points of Controversy
OR
Subjects of Discourse
BEING A TRANSLATION OF THE KATHAVATTHU
FROM THE ABHIDHAMMA-PITAKA
BY
SHWE ZAN AUNG, B.A
AND
MRS. RHYS DAVIDS, M.A
4. Of the Utterance, 'This is Pain and Sorrow!'
Controverted Point.—That from utterance of the word,
'This is Ill! ' insight into the nature of Ill is set working.
From the Commentary.™Some, like, the Andhakas, hold that this
befalls the devotee at the moment when he enters on the Path.1 The
opponent's reply admits both utterance and insight. In the last
-question, to which the opponent replies in the negative, he is asked
whether, by the procedure he upholds, he is not committed to allow
an insight issuing from each syllable: I - dang du-kkhang ?
[1] Th.—But you deny that a similar result ensues on
the utterance of the other three Truths: This is the Cause,
this the Cessation, this the Path leading to the Cessation of
111 . Why is this ? [2] Why deny for these what you
affirm for the first Truth ?
[3] Or why deny, as you do, that insight into the im-
permanenee of each of the five aggregates (body-mind)
follows from statement of the fact ? [4] Or, once more,
1
When he is fleeing from 11 1 rather than envisaging positive
happiness. See above, IX. 1; cf . II. 5, 6.
T.S. v.
that insight into the soullessness of each aggregate follows
from a statement of the fact ? [5-6] On what grounds can
you defend the sequence in one case only out of the three
sets of five propositions ?
[7] Now do you mean to tell me that insight issues from
every syllable of this formula :—This—is—pain—and—
sor—row?1
A.—Nay, that cannot truly be said.2 . . .
5. Of the Force of the Magic Gift (Iddhi).
Controverted Point.—That one who has the gift of magic
potency might live on for a kappa [on earth].
From the Commentary.—The interval, kappa, here means a 'great'
cycle (mahakappa3), not its fourth part, the 'incalculable cycle'
(asankheyyakappa4) , nor the mere 'life-term' (ayukappa) .
Now some, like the Mahasanghikas, hold this view, because they have
not thoroughly grasped the real advantage lying in the development
of the steps to magic potency. The opponent, knowing that his vital
principle or functioning is but the result of karma, has to deny that
his vital functions are determined by iddhi. All that magic potency
can effect is to avert things that would bring about an untimely death.
[1] Th.—But is his life-span, is his destiny, is his
acquisition of individuality a thing of magic potency [that
he should be able to prolong one interval of it] ? For this,
is what you are herein affirming.
And do you reckon the kappa as past or as future?
[And why restrict yourself to one kappa ?] Why not say
'might live on for two, three, four kappas '?
[2] Again, do you mean that, given life, he could live-
on for the remainder of his life, or that he could live on
1
Dukkha includes both. In PTS text read du ti for ruci.
2
Ibid., read, for Amanta , Na h'evang vattabbe—pe—.
3
See Compendium, 142, n. 1 (in which page, for [n.] 3 read 1, and
2nd fn. as 2). Cf. Anguttara-Nik., ii. 126,142. On iddhi see
Bud. Psychology, 127, 161.
4
Cf. Childers' Pali Dictionary, sub voce kappa .
for the remainder of his life if there were no [organic] life
left?
M.—He could live on for the remainder of his life,
given life.
Th —Then he could certainly not live on for a kappa}
M.— [Well then] i f there were no [organic] life left.
Th.—What! he could live on though dead, though
deceased ? . . .
[3] [Again, what could he effect by the magic gift in the
duration of consciousness ?] Could he by it succeed in
preventing any phase of consciousness that had arisen
from ceasing, contact, for instance, or feeling, or perception,
or volition, and so on ?
[4] Or could he by it make any one of the five aggre-
gates (body-mind) permanent ?
[5] Or could he by it prevent (a) beings liable to re-birth2
from being born ? Or (b) beings liable to grow old, from
old age ?3 Or (c) beings liable to disease, from disease,4 or
(d) liable to die, from death ? . . .
[6] M.—But was it not said by the Exalted One:
' Ananda, whosoever has cultivated, developed, established,
built up, and persistently practised the four Steps to Iddhi,
so as to be able to use them as a vehicle and as a basis, he,
should he desire it, coidd remain in the same birth for a kappa,
or for that portion of the kappa which had yet to run '?5
Does not this support my proposition ?
1
The normal duration of human life being at the most 100 years
(Samyutta-Nik., ii. 94 f.).—Comy.
2
Literally, having the quality or nature of birth.
3
In the Netti (p. 23) it is said that by iddh i old age may be
deferred, and youthfulness prolonged till death.
4
From this it may be inferred that Buddhists did not attach much
importance to the therapeutic value of magic potency, or iddhi .
5
Dialogues, ii. 110 f . The four Steps are will, effort , thought, in-
vestigation, each united to earnest thought and the struggle against
evil. ' Iddhi ' means accomplishment. Cf . Milinda, i. 198 f . (trans-
lation), where the question is again argued without reference to the
Kathdvatthu. Whether kappa here meant ayukappa only or not, the
Mahasanghika takes it to mean mahakappa.
[7] Th.—But was it not also said by the Exalted One :
' O bhikkhus ! against four things there is none that can be
surety, be he recluse or brahmin, be he deva, or Mara, or
Brahma, or anyone whatever in the world. Against which
four ? Against the old age of those subject to decay. Against
the infirmities of those liable to infirmities. Against the dying
of those whose nature it is to die. Against the coming to pass
of the consequences of the evil deeds done in the past—deeds
that were corrupt, tending to re-becoming, vain, of evil effect,
making for birth, decay, and death' ?1
Is the Suttanta thus ?
Hence it is not right to say that one who has the gift
of magic potency might live on for an aeon.
1 Anguttara-Nik., ii. 172.
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